Adam Dunn redux
in [Cincinnati Reds]
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From: Bob Braun on 21 Sep 2009 18:23 "john smith" <eddygdvd(a)msn.com> wrote in message news:10001-4AB7EF89-1860(a)baytvnwsxa001.msntv.msn.com... >I wish people would stop saying Darnell Macdonald was your opening day > centerfielder like he was the guy who was going to start a majority of > the games. No, Taveras had the flu and MacDonald was their to sub. The > reason he was on the roster was he was going to be a part-time player > and not warrant a whole lot of at bats. The management obviously wanted > Gomes to get at-bats, That is why he went south.....But then again Gomes > could have walked and not accepted the AAA demotion. Management is > horrible!! > > We all knew at the time this was the most idiotic move the team could > make but hey it is the Reds we are talking about here..... > > As far as Adam Dunn is concerned his nickname should be the "GHOST". He > seems to disappear and reappear off and on in a line up over the course > of a season. But I just think he disappears more often then he does > appear. He can carry a team for 2 weeks but then be invisible for 6 > weeks. His swing can be downright ugly. I don't think you can ever count > on him for a big hit against a premiere closer. Sure he is a freak, but > he is a player who signed for 40 percent less for what he was making > with the Reds after averaging 40 homers a year. Man, them other GMS must > have been really stupid? > > John K don't you know your not entitled to an opinion. Twenty-Nine other > General Managers and you must be really dumb. Come on John, say yes we > can, yes we can.You have to believe in Adam Dunn. The Reds would have > been a playoff team with him. You have to realize that OBP percentage of > Adam Dunn makes him a Hall Of Famer. He really is a difference maker, he > turns mediocre teams into playoff teams. He adds those certain > intangibles like leadership, hustle and a winning attitude to every team > he has played on. His base running and defense are stellar weapons! We > all have must have missed these great attributes on Sir Adam... > > Question for all the Dunn supporters if he hits 600 homeruns in his > career, and hits .260 career wise. and never wins a playoff game. Is he > a Hall Of Famer?...Why does Dunn's homeruns never really turn into big > RBI numbers? If he hits 40+ homers a year, I always thought 125 RBIS > plus should follow? Dunn always just barely gets 100? I'm not a Dunn supporter. I'm an offense supporter. I have NEVER once said that anyone is not entitled to an opinion! Zuke and I were on polar opposites yesterday on Doc Rodgers. I don't disrespect his opinion at all. Nor did I feel any disrespect from his disagreement. If we all agree on every point concerning the Reds, what the hell is the use of having a discussion group? Back to Dunn.................Ghost? Disappear? How do you disappear and maintain .400 + OBP?? Could he hit more timely HR's? Could he deliver sac flies with more consistency? Could he be better defensively? Did people beat down the door to sign him? All of those points and more can be argued. But to discount the guy as a total bum is beyond foolish. Would you rather have an aggressive power hitter as opposed to a guy who would work a walk? That's okay too.................just go get one! If you are going to part with those offensive numbers you had better have a viable replacement. Or else tell the truth. We are going to use young guys in 2009 to see exactly where we are with the focus on 2010, 2011......whatever. But don't jump on 50,000 watts, sobbing, telling the fan base that you believe with every fiber of your soul, that this team is a contender. "I'm tired of losing". Only two cures for that Uncle Bob, get better players or get out of the business. Now the fodder will be...........look at September! If we hadn't had those damned injuries in the middle of the season, this would be a winning ball club! I wonder if they would give us a asbcr booth at Reds Fest? Is their still a Reds fest??
From: Bob Braun on 21 Sep 2009 18:30 "john smith" <eddygdvd(a)msn.com> wrote in message news:17008-4AB7F07E-1771(a)baytvnwsxa002.msntv.msn.com... > Hey Braunie, do you like that Michigan fight song? You gotta love > Michigan and Notre Dame for their fight songs right? > > If my memory serves me correct didn't Michigan once have an infield that > included Sabo, Morris and Larkin. I could have misremembered though. > Love that new word lawyers love to have their clients parrot , > MISREMEMBER... Hey Roger........... My daughter-in-law is a Notre Dame grad. I have no problem with ND. As for TSUN.................I'll withhold comment. I *am* rooting hard for UC. I think we (Buckeyes) are fortunate we don't play them this year.
From: HTP on 21 Sep 2009 18:56 On Sep 21, 2:26 pm, eddyg...(a)msn.com (john smith) wrote: > I wish people would stop saying Darnell Macdonald was your opening day > centerfielder like he was the guy who was going to start a majority of > the games. No, Taveras had the flu and MacDonald was their to sub. The > reason he was on the roster was he was going to be a part-time player > and not warrant a whole lot of at bats. The management obviously wanted > Gomes to get at-bats, That is why he went south.....But then again Gomes > could have walked and not accepted the AAA demotion. Management is > horrible!! John is actually making sense for once. I recall being under the impression that McDonald was heading North with the team for the same reason, because Taveras was under the weather and they needed someone to cover center. The question is why did it take so long to get Gomes back up. I dont know for sure. Its sort of a moot point anyway in the sense that Gomes was unlikely to get a lot of playing time early on. We forget that Hairston came out of Spring Training as the likely man to get most of the starts in left. With Taveras in center, Bruce in right, and Dickerson filling in, thats the majority of the OF innings right there. Eventually Hairston started having to fill in nightly at SS and 3b. But you couldnt know that on April 5th. Perhaps thats why they left Johnny down so long. He's a hitter only and doesnt bring much else and they wanted to get him alot of AB's. If thats the plan, then it actually did work out. He was recalled and hit a ton. Problem is, the club has been losing mainly since he was recalled. Not his fault. Mainly its pitching and the accumulation of injurys. The Reds played a few games over .500 without him. Its hard to imagine them winning more games with him just occasionally coming off the bench in Apr/May. Now if you want to argue that he should have started, over Taveras or Hairston/Dickerson, then thats another matter. > > We all knew at the time this was the most idiotic move the team could > make but hey it is the Reds we are talking about here..... > > As far as Adam Dunn is concerned his nickname should be the "GHOST". He > seems to disappear and reappear off and on in a line up over the course > of a season. But I just think he disappears more often then he does > appear. He can carry a team for 2 weeks but then be invisible for 6 > weeks. His swing can be downright ugly. I don't think you can ever count > on him for a big hit against a premiere closer. Sure he is a freak, but > he is a player who signed for 40 percent less for what he was making > with the Reds after averaging 40 homers a year. Man, them other GMS must > have been really stupid? Either that or there wasnt a big demand for leftfielders among the teams that could theoretically afford Dunn. Well, actually there was, but Manny/Ibanez/Abreau/Burrell/etc were also available. Eventually he signed at below market value to play 1st base, the same as Abreau did with the Angels (although he eventually moved back to OF). If you were to try to go organization-by-organization and try to figure who could have realistically signed Dunn to play left or DH for say 12 mil+, its a very short list. > > John K don't you know your not entitled to an opinion. Twenty-Nine other > General Managers and you must be really dumb. Come on John, say yes we > can, yes we can.You have to believe in Adam Dunn. The Reds would have > been a playoff team with him. You have to realize that OBP percentage of > Adam Dunn makes him a Hall Of Famer. He really is a difference maker, he > turns mediocre teams into playoff teams. He adds those certain > intangibles like leadership, hustle and a winning attitude to every team > he has played on. His base running and defense are stellar weapons! We > all have must have missed these great attributes on Sir Adam... ....and you were doing so well. There are at least a half dozen false arguments in here. No one ever made these claims about Dunn. You've resorted to just making up stuff which usually signifies in a person that they know theyve lost the debate. > > Question for all the Dunn supporters if he hits 600 homeruns in his > career, and hits .260 career wise. and never wins a playoff game. Is he > a Hall Of Famer?... easily Why does Dunn's homeruns never really turn into big > RBI numbers? If he hits 40+ homers a year, I always thought 125 RBIS > plus should follow? Dunn always just barely gets 100? Maybe because he walks 100-150 times per year and managers insist on hitting him 5th. In 1958, Mickey Mantle played 150 games and hit .304 with 42 HR. He managed to drive in a whopping 97 runs. Fluke? No. In 1960, he played 153 games, hitting 40 HR with 94 RBI. Mantle routinely failed to break the 100-RBI mark despite ridiculous batting averages and home run totals. Mantle was a far better hitter than Dunn and yet he was not the RBI machine that you seem to think Dunn should be. There are reasons why hitters dont drive in the runs our algorithms predict. They get walked alot, pitched around, the runners arent getting on ahead of them, or other hitters are driving them in. Its interesting to note that Dunn already has more career 100-rbi seasons than Mantle did. Different era of course with a bit longer schedule now, but Dunn never got to bat in the heart of a Yankee juggernaut. Thats just off the top of my head. I'm sure I can find other hitters who have not had the RBI/HR ratios you might expect. Bonds had only 137 RBI the year he hit 73 HR. Whats up with that?
From: Zuke on 22 Sep 2009 10:03 On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, HTP wrote: > On Sep 21, 2:26 pm, eddyg...(a)msn.com (john smith) wrote: >> I wish people would stop saying Darnell Macdonald was your opening day >> centerfielder like he was the guy who was going to start a majority of >> the games. No, Taveras had the flu and MacDonald was their to sub. The > totals. > > Mantle was a far better hitter than Dunn and yet he was not the RBI > machine that you seem to think Dunn should be. There are reasons why > hitters dont drive in the runs our algorithms predict. They get walked > alot, pitched around, the runners arent getting on ahead of them, or > other hitters are driving them in. > > Its interesting to note that Dunn already has more career 100-rbi > seasons than Mantle did. Different era of course with a bit longer > schedule now, but Dunn never got to bat in the heart of a Yankee > juggernaut. > Wow, that's interesting on Mantle. One, where did he bat in the order and two, was it behind Maris? That's the only explanations I can think of. Or maybe three, they pitched around him with runners on base. I'd like to see Dunn on Boston on the Yankees. With the kind of money they throw around they were stupid to not take a flyer on Dunn. And I also agree with the others that he should be batting higher in the order. But he also went through fallow periods. Which I guess almost all players do.
From: Kevin McClave on 22 Sep 2009 10:14
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:26:33 -0700, eddygdvd(a)msn.com (john smith) wrote: >I wish people would stop saying Darnell Macdonald was your opening day >centerfielder like he was the guy who was going to start a majority of >the games. No, Taveras had the flu and MacDonald was their to sub. The >reason he was on the roster was he was going to be a part-time player >and not warrant a whole lot of at bats. The management obviously wanted >Gomes to get at-bats, That is why he went south.....But then again Gomes >could have walked and not accepted the AAA demotion. Management is >horrible!! > >We all knew at the time this was the most idiotic move the team could >make but hey it is the Reds we are talking about here..... > >As far as Adam Dunn is concerned his nickname should be the "GHOST". He >seems to disappear and reappear off and on in a line up over the course >of a season. But I just think he disappears more often then he does >appear. He can carry a team for 2 weeks but then be invisible for 6 >weeks. His swing can be downright ugly. I don't think you can ever count >on him for a big hit against a premiere closer. Sure he is a freak, but >he is a player who signed for 40 percent less for what he was making >with the Reds after averaging 40 homers a year. Man, them other GMS must >have been really stupid? > >John K don't you know your not entitled to an opinion. Twenty-Nine other >General Managers and you must be really dumb. Come on John, say yes we >can, yes we can.You have to believe in Adam Dunn. The Reds would have >been a playoff team with him. You have to realize that OBP percentage of >Adam Dunn makes him a Hall Of Famer. He really is a difference maker, he >turns mediocre teams into playoff teams. He adds those certain >intangibles like leadership, hustle and a winning attitude to every team >he has played on. His base running and defense are stellar weapons! We >all have must have missed these great attributes on Sir Adam... > >Question for all the Dunn supporters if he hits 600 homeruns in his >career, and hits .260 career wise. and never wins a playoff game. Is he >a Hall Of Famer?...Why does Dunn's homeruns never really turn into big >RBI numbers? If he hits 40+ homers a year, I always thought 125 RBIS >plus should follow? Dunn always just barely gets 100? John, I have only one basic comment on your comments above. Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. The reason I am so harsh on John K. is not because I disagree with his conclusions, but because he is dishonest in presenting the information that *supposedly* supports his conclusions. That's a much bigger issue, and one not limited to his discussions of Adam Dunn (note that others have torn down his supposed analysis for similar dishonesty before). Your description of Dunn's output coming and going throughout a season is a much more accurate depiction of his streakiness than a claim that a September disappearance is "typical." Now, I think you are exaggerating the 2 weeks to 6 weeks thing, and you obviously continue to ignore his OBP when claiming he's a Kingman clone, but... ********************************************************************* Kevin McClave "Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it." ~Robert F. Kennedy ********************************************************************* |