From: HTP on
On Sep 22, 12:39 pm, "David Short"
<David.No.Sh...(a)Spam.Wright.Please.Edu> wrote:
> "HTP" <tmbowma...(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >The Reds have the worst offense in the league. I think Adam Dunn is
> >still a legit topic here.
>
> Go into the wayback machine and have the reds re-up Adam for another year..
> Does it make a difference?
>
> They won't have the money to sign Mike Lincoln, The Virus or Arthur Rhodes
> and probably to re-up stormy. Too bad so sad on the first two, but they
> would have missed Rhodes and stormy. Without the two of them (and Lincoln)
> they would have been forced to push Roenicke into the majors.
>
> I would guess that the virus' playing time would have gone to Dickerson.
> They probably would not have been able to sign Gomes and Niz with Dunn in
> the fold.
>

If the Reds had control of Dunn heading into this season, and they get
offered Tavares, Nix, Gomes, Weathers, Rhodes, and Lincoln for him,
and you dont know beforehand that Tavares and Lincoln will be total
disasters (even by thier standards), or that Gomes and Rhodes will
excel, do you make that trade? Based on warm bodies alone i think you
pretty much have to. You get half a legit bullpen, and if only 1 of
the outfielders pans out, which Gomes did, you have leftfield covered.
The negative side of that is that they wasted half a season on Tavares
finding out what they should have known in advance.
From: HTP on
On Sep 23, 7:36 am, John Kasupski <kc2...(a)spamfilter.verizon.net>
wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:48:20 -0700 (PDT), HTP <tmbowma...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >bench Taveras, put Dickerson/Bruce in center, with Bruce/Gomes in rf.
> >Now put Ted in left. That makes a huge difference to the offense. All
> >theoretical of course, but its silly to say that swapping out Willie
> >Tavares for Ted Williams makes almost no difference in an offense.
>
> Agreed...but in my opinion, still not enough of a difference to significantly
> change where the Reds will finish in the division standings. Whether Bruce is in
> RF or CF, he still hit .210 with a .284 OBP. And the Reds still also had gaping
> offensive holes at shortstop and third base.

To clarify and reiterate, coming into the season, the Reds did not
have a gaping offensive hole at third base. Encarnacion had
consistently put up 100+ ops numbers. The likely offensive holes were
in ss, catcher, and either left and/or center depending on how you
configued and whether Hairston could hit and whether Dicklerson was a
fluke.

3b became a hole because Encarnacion got hurt (when or how i'm not
clear, probably tail end of spring training). Neither hairston nor
Rosales could fill the void. Rolens put up a 90 ops+ which is
borderline depending on what you consider a hole, but for a
thirdbaseman i find that lacking. Consider that Encarnacion put up an
84 ops+ here and he was clearly playing injured in April.

From: Bob Braun on

"Kevin McClave" <kmcclave(a)SPAM666twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:fo4kb5909jkmmunairk462eitrul5raq72(a)4ax.com...
>
> That doesn't diminish your point about the positions you named, but
> certainly losing Dunn's O and not even remotely replacing it is a big
> part of the problem offensively. So is not replacing Griffey's (league
> average RF OPS last season), Hairston's career half-year, etc. All the
> offensive shortcomings we discussed in the off-season that did in fact
> come home to roost.
>
> *********************************************************************
> Kevin McClave

My internet mantra for the past SEVERAL months.

RE: Cincinnati Reds - "How are they going to score runs?"

RE" Cleveland Browns - "Who are we going to throw the ball to?"

I really cannot believe Professional Sports teams leave themselves so naked.
We have to get rid of Dunn! We have to get rid of Winslow! Okay, fine, who
do you have in mind for replacements?

Same way with yelling for a coaching change. Great, you want a new coach,
who do you want? Depending on just how bad the situation is, there is a
better than even chance, you can do worse!

Ask Nancy Zimpher...........not that she would give a flying f*ck!


From: David Short on
HTP wrote:
> On Sep 22, 12:39 pm, "David Short"
> <David.No.Sh...(a)Spam.Wright.Please.Edu> wrote:
>> "HTP" <tmbowma...(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>>> The Reds have the worst offense in the league. I think Adam Dunn is
>>> still a legit topic here.
>> Go into the wayback machine and have the reds re-up Adam for another year.
>> Does it make a difference?
>>
>> They won't have the money to sign Mike Lincoln, The Virus or Arthur Rhodes
>> and probably to re-up stormy. Too bad so sad on the first two, but they
>> would have missed Rhodes and stormy. Without the two of them (and Lincoln)
>> they would have been forced to push Roenicke into the majors.
>>
>> I would guess that the virus' playing time would have gone to Dickerson.
>> They probably would not have been able to sign Gomes and Niz with Dunn in
>> the fold.
>>
>
> If the Reds had control of Dunn heading into this season, and they get
> offered Tavares, Nix, Gomes, Weathers, Rhodes, and Lincoln for him,
> and you dont know beforehand that Tavares and Lincoln will be total
> disasters (even by thier standards), or that Gomes and Rhodes will
> excel, do you make that trade? Based on warm bodies alone i think you
> pretty much have to. You get half a legit bullpen, and if only 1 of
> the outfielders pans out, which Gomes did, you have leftfield covered.
> The negative side of that is that they wasted half a season on Tavares
> finding out what they should have known in advance.

That's an interesting way to look at it.

No. If it's for a single year I don't make that trade. The best player
in the deal is going the other way.

dfs

From: Kevin McClave on
On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:15:19 -0400, David Short
<David.no.Short(a)Spam.Wright.Please.edu> wrote:

>HTP wrote:
>> On Sep 22, 12:39 pm, "David Short"
>> <David.No.Sh...(a)Spam.Wright.Please.Edu> wrote:
>>> "HTP" <tmbowma...(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>>> The Reds have the worst offense in the league. I think Adam Dunn is
>>>> still a legit topic here.
>>> Go into the wayback machine and have the reds re-up Adam for another year.
>>> Does it make a difference?
>>>
>>> They won't have the money to sign Mike Lincoln, The Virus or Arthur Rhodes
>>> and probably to re-up stormy. Too bad so sad on the first two, but they
>>> would have missed Rhodes and stormy. Without the two of them (and Lincoln)
>>> they would have been forced to push Roenicke into the majors.
>>>
>>> I would guess that the virus' playing time would have gone to Dickerson.
>>> They probably would not have been able to sign Gomes and Niz with Dunn in
>>> the fold.
>>>
>>
>> If the Reds had control of Dunn heading into this season, and they get
>> offered Tavares, Nix, Gomes, Weathers, Rhodes, and Lincoln for him,
>> and you dont know beforehand that Tavares and Lincoln will be total
>> disasters (even by thier standards), or that Gomes and Rhodes will
>> excel, do you make that trade? Based on warm bodies alone i think you
>> pretty much have to. You get half a legit bullpen, and if only 1 of
>> the outfielders pans out, which Gomes did, you have leftfield covered.
>> The negative side of that is that they wasted half a season on Tavares
>> finding out what they should have known in advance.
>
>That's an interesting way to look at it.
>
>No. If it's for a single year I don't make that trade. The best player
>in the deal is going the other way.

Even if it isn't for a single year there's no longer term upside either.
That group isn't going to get any better than it is, and with the 2
geezers, it will get worse soon.

*********************************************************************
Kevin McClave

"Fear not the path of truth for the lack of
people walking on it." ~Robert F. Kennedy
*********************************************************************
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