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From: David Short on 29 Apr 2010 14:04
On 4/29/2010 12:41 PM, HTP wrote:
> On Apr 29, 2:07 am, Gregg<gk...(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Phillips is an assclown IMO. I'm hoping Walt gets a clue and ships him
>> off - I don't care for who - IMO he is justbad overall for a team.
>
> And replace him with who?
>
> I dont understand this kind of mentality. He's a better than average
> all-around secondbaseman and much better than anything we have ready
> to replace him. I can name maybe 5 or 6 second basemen in the game
> that i would take over Phillips. I'd be hard pressed to name up to 10
> that give a better combination of offense/defense. Given that there
> are approximately 30 starting secondbasemen in the game, isnt being in
> the top 10 a good thing?

I just went to espn and sorted on 2009 OPS for second basemen with 150+
plate appearances, Phillips is #17 right by guys like Craig Counsel adn
Howard Kendrick. That's about right and that's the problem.

Phillips is a decent enough player. What do you have here?

While his defense is no where as good as the reds announcers will have
you think, it isn't terrible.
He kills lefties. Just murders them.
He has no business near the top of the order against righthanders (and
there are a LOT of righthanded pitchers in the league.)
He stays healthy and in the lineup. (That's a real skill. Ask Austin
Kearns.)

That's a nice enough player, but it's not a star. He's not one of the
best second baseman in the game. (or at least he hasn't shown that kind
of talent yet.) And that's part of the problem. He clearly thinks he's a
star. I'm not a fan of Adam Rosales rah-rah hustle, but Phillips is so
far at the other end of the spectrum that I notice it.

To compound matters I know it's not his fault that they hit him cleanup,
but....well, they do and it's crazy.

> Now, i'm not opposed to seeing him traded, but my reasons involve
> payroll flexibility. If the Reds are going to contend this season,
> they cant jettison someone like Phillips, even for payroll reasons,
> unless they can adequately replace him. Lets hear some names. Chris
> Burke maybe?

Who could they replace him with? Are you kidding? Todd Frazier. Chris
Valaika. Those are two easy ones. The reds have guys like this falling
out of their system to the point that they give them away (Rosales,
Justin Turner) If they could deal Phillips and his contract in order to
get room for Frazier, they would do it in a minute.

> And whats with the assclown comment. Do you know the guy personally?
> I'll guess that you dont.

.....I'm as respectful as anybody of players personal lives, but you
don't get it both ways. You don't get to suck up to the crowd at reds
fest and then expect the fans to not notice when you don't run out
outfield errors. You can't claim to be the face of the franchise and
then act petulant when reporters don't interview you first every spring.
Hinting that there was locker room trouble whenever Hamilton, or Dunn or
Junior leave town is just....well assclown is the term that describes
Phillips public behavior and while I don't like it, Gregg got it right.

>> It's not one thing but a plethora of things. Cordeo ( like I said a
>> year ago ) IMO should be shopped also, I never did like his fit here
>> in Cincinnati with GABP and when they hit the road it is basically the
>> same thing. I don't know if someone has the stat, but with him it
>> seems that there are hardly any 1-2-3 innings ....against good teams
>> he is going to kill this club. Lets get Oswalt!!!
>
> And the new closer will be?

Why Nick Masset, of course,

dfs
From: John Kasupski on 29 Apr 2010 14:48
On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 19:58:37 -0700, eddygdvd(a)msn.com (john smith) wrote:

>The kid Leake pitched a beautiful game. He pitches like a 15 year
>veteran out there. Pitches to both sides of the plate with movement.
>Looks like Tom Glavine in many respects. Even when he gets behind 3-0,
>he has the ability to come back and get the batter. Superb POISE....
>
>He has better stuff than Bronson but he pitches similarly to him and
>even looks a little like him, so I have dubbed him YOUNG BRONSON. He is
>also quite an athlete. College coach said he was best SS and third
>basemen on the team. But can we at least get him a UNI that fits him.
>
>As for the rest of the clowns. Brandon usual doggit play on his fly to
>right. Mr. Massett with the 2 run gopher ball. Then a kick save by Votto
>and a little more gasoline on the fire by COCO and you hang on to a 6-4
>win. See if they can move forward tomorrow and sweep off of their
>nemesis Oswalt.

I take several positives out of last night's game.

Leake is one of them - 7 IP, 1 run, 5 hits, 5 K, 2 BB, 105 pitches, 13 ground
balls and only five fly balls, four of his innings were 1-2-3 and in two others
he gave up a hit but subsequently got a ground ball for a DP and thus faced only
three batters in those innings. He set down ten in a row at one point. The only
tarnished spot on his shining armor was in the fifth. He fanned Bourn with the
sacks drunk to end the inning. Not bad for a guy who was pitching college ball
at this time last year. Now if he can do the same against Pujols...

I was mostly right about Paulino. Bruce didn't take him deep - nobody did - but
the Reds continued their recent mastery of Paulino and scored six runs off him
in the first four innings, albeit that half of those came on Phillips' fly that
Bourn and Pence apparently lost track of in the night sky with the roof open.

Stubbs leads off the game with a single, steals second, comes around on a couple
of productive outs, and the Reds lead 1-0. Then there was Votto's one-out RBI
triple off the ball boy's chair in right field in the third inning. He pout that
ball right down the line. I'd have liked to see them score the runner from third
after that, but I guess even Rolen can't get that sac fly every time.

A few people have griped about Cordero, but he's not even in this game if Masset
doesn't start the ninth by walking Lee and serving up a dinger to Berkman (who
else, right?). It should be noted that it was still not a save situation - the
tying run has to be on base, at the plate, or on deck - but Dusty could hardly
just stand there and watch Masset blow another game that the Reds already had
won, he has to turn the key and he did. It may not have been pretty, but a win
is a win and coupled with losses by the Brewers and Cubs, it put the Reds alone
in second place in the division. One more and they're back to .500 again.
Cordero got serious when he had to and retired the last two batters with runners
at first and second and the potential winning run at the plate for the Astros.

So now tonight it's Arroyo vs. Oswalt and B-Yo should have a chip on his
shoulder after the Padres smacked him around in his last start on Friday.
Bronson's won his last four starts against the Astros and went the distance in
two of those. And it's a night game - Arroyo prefers to pitch at night, which
probably should come as no surprise since over his career he's 65-55 at night
and 21-30 in day games.

As for Oswalt, he won eight consecutive starts against the Reds from August 2006
to September 2008 and went to 23-1 agaimst the Reds in his career. Then suddenly
last year he had no decisions in four starts versus them last year. Maybe the
scale is tipping the other way. Here's hoping that tonight the Reds start
evening things out a bit, by hanging an L on this guy and having B-Yo break into
the W column

JK

From: John Kasupski on 29 Apr 2010 16:15
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 09:41:30 -0700 (PDT), HTP <tmbowman25(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Apr 29, 2:07�am, Gregg <gk...(a)earthlink.net> wrote:

>> Phillips is an assclown IMO. I'm hoping Walt gets a clue and ships him
>> off - I don't care for who - IMO he is justbad overall for a team.
>
>And replace him with who?

Yeah. It's not like they've got a kid in AAA forcing their hand. Sutton was
hitting .195 as of the end of last week. Frazier was hitting .147 and isn't on
the 40-man. Valaika has started this season playing 2B in Louisville and has hit
..375 but he's still very inexperienced at the position. Janish literally has
more MLB experience as a pitcher (2 games) than as a second baseman (0 games).
cairo has hit .111 in limited action. None of those guys is likely to turn in a
20-20 year, which Phillips has done in each of the last three seasons.

>I dont understand this kind of mentality. He's a better than average
>all-around secondbaseman and much better than anything we have ready
>to replace him. I can name maybe 5 or 6 second basemen in the game
>that i would take over Phillips. I'd be hard pressed to name up to 10
>that give a better combination of offense/defense. Given that there
>are approximately 30 starting secondbasemen in the game, isnt being in
>the top 10 a good thing?

I'm not sure I'd even name that many. Pedroia, Uggla, and Orlando Hudson are
probably the only three I personally would take over Phillips. I think the rest
fall short, either with the lumber or with the leather - or in many cases both.

>Now, i'm not opposed to seeing him traded, but my reasons involve
>payroll flexibility. If the Reds are going to contend this season,
>they cant jettison someone like Phillips, even for payroll reasons,
>unless they can adequately replace him. Lets hear some names. Chris
>Burke maybe?

A .239 career hitter who's never had more than 9 dingers or 11 steals in a
single season and isn't in the same league as Phillips defensively? I think not.

Realistically, you're not going to get Uggla, Pedroia, or Hudson. You're not
going to get Utley, and he's no salary relief anyway. Weeks is a butcher
defensively. Howie Kendrick has put up decent numbers with the Angels but hasn't
played full time because Scioscia plays Maicer Izturis there a lot (as well as
at SS, #B, and even DH)...and Izturis isn't bad either, but again hasn't played
full time. Prado hasn't played a full season yet either and hasn't shown
anything close to Phillips' power. For that matter, neither has Kendrick or
Izturis. Also C, SS, 2B, and CF is the heart of your defense, if you're not
strong up the middle you may as well go home.

So, I think you can get cheaper, but you're not going to get cheaper without
weakening the team. You have a 29-year old 2B who's a perennial 20-20 man and
has a GG and you're trying to win ballgames. No, this is not the time to trade
Brandon Phillips...but it wouldn't hurt for the manager to give him a good swift
kick in the gluteus maximus and impress upon him the importance of bringing it
to the field every day on every play.

>> It's not one thing but a plethora of things. Cordeo ( like I said a
>> year ago ) IMO should be shopped also, I never did like his fit here
>> in Cincinnati with GABP and when they hit the road it is basically the
>> same thing. I don't know if someone has the stat, but with him it
>> seems that there are hardly any 1-2-3 innings ....against good teams
>> he is going to kill this club. Lets get Oswalt!!!
>
>And the new closer will be?

Yeah. People wanted to trade Cordero over the winter and make Masset the closer.
In light of Masset's current 2.36 WHIP and the fact that he has a whopping ONE
save in five seasons so far, I think that would've been more than a little
premature...he hasn't really even proven himself as a setup man yet.

I know that the Billy Beanes of the world like to say that closers are overpaid
and easily replaced, but it's very hard to find teams who have won a WS in
recent memory without a siutable performance from somebody in the closer's role.
The Yankees have Rivera. The Phillies had Lidge. The Red Sox had Papelbon in '07
and Foulke in '04. The Cardinals had Izzy. The White Sox had Hermanson. The
Angels had Percival. The Marlins had Braden Looper, who only had 28 saves in the
regular season, but finished 64 games, and then tacked on two Ws, another save,
and six games finished in the playoffs. The D-backs may be the only exception in
'01 with Byung-Hyun Kim getting only 44 GFs and 19 saves during the regular
season, but in the playoffs he had a save and a GF in the NLDS and two saves and
3 GFs in the NLDS before Bob Brenly horribly misused him in the WS - which I
won't reiterate about here because I've posted the facts about that to this NG a
couple of times before and because anyone who wants to can look it up.

Somebody upthread made a comment about Cordero's salary and the Reds often not
having a lead in the ninth inning. I forget who it was. I read similar comments
a lot. Why are people ignoring the fact that in the ten games the Reds have won
so far this season he's gotten a win, seven saves, and finished the game in
non-save situations in the other two? Without Cordero, the Reds would basically
be the Orioles right now - already buried at the bottom of the division in April
and looking forward to nothing but a long, miserable summer and a lot of people
losing their jobs.

JK

From: tom dunne on 29 Apr 2010 17:16
On Apr 29, 5:07 am, Gregg <gk...(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Apr 28, 10:58 pm, eddyg...(a)msn.com (john smith) wrote:
>
> > The kid Leake pitched a beautiful game. He pitches like a 15 year
> > veteran out there. Pitches to both sides of the plate with movement.
> > Looks like Tom Glavine in many respects. Even when he gets behind 3-0,
> > he has the ability to come back and get the batter. Superb POISE....
>
> > He has better stuff than Bronson but he pitches similarly to him and
> > even looks a little like him, so I have dubbed him YOUNG BRONSON. He is
> > also quite an athlete. College coach said he was best SS and third
> > basemen on the team. But can we at least get him a UNI that fits him.
>
> > As for the rest of the clowns. Brandon usual doggit play on his fly to
> > right. Mr. Massett with the 2 run gopher ball. Then a kick save by Votto
> > and a little more gasoline on the fire by COCO and you hang on to a 6-4
> > win. See if they can move forward tomorrow and sweep off of their
> > nemesis  Oswalt.
>
> Phillips is an assclown IMO. I'm hoping Walt gets a clue and ships him
> off - I don't care for who - IMO he is justbad overall for a team.
> It's not one thing but a plethora of things. Cordeo ( like I said a
> year ago ) IMO should be shopped also, I never did like his fit here
> in Cincinnati with GABP and when they hit the road it is basically the
> same thing. I don't know if someone has the stat, but with him it
> seems that there are hardly any 1-2-3 innings ....against good teams
> he is going to kill this club. Lets get Oswalt!!!

Last year, Cordero had 39 saves, second most in the NL, and an
excellent 2.16 ERA. He had 4 saves against the division-winning
Cardinals. So far this year, Cordero is again second in the NL in
saves and has closed out games against the division leading Cardinals
and Padres. He's been about as good as any closer in baseball for the
last four seasons, even against good teams, and the numbers back it
up.

There was an article the other day in the Enquirer about how the Reds
are one of the most hated teams in baseball, based on the negativity
of what people say about them. I believe this kind of talk is why
people think that. Cordero is a really good player, one of the best
at his position, and yet people everywhere complain because he doesn't
look dominant enough doing it. Honestly, I don't know what some fans
are expecting, when even the good players get trashed in Cincinnati.
From: tom dunne on 29 Apr 2010 17:20
On Apr 29, 5:36 am, Gregg <gk...(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Apr 29, 1:24 am, tom dunne <dunn...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 10:58 pm, eddyg...(a)msn.com (john smith) wrote:
>
> > > The kid Leake pitched a beautiful game. He pitches like a 15 year
> > > veteran out there. Pitches to both sides of the plate with movement.
> > > Looks like Tom Glavine in many respects. Even when he gets behind 3-0,
> > > he has the ability to come back and get the batter. Superb POISE....
>
> > > He has better stuff than Bronson but he pitches similarly to him and
> > > even looks a little like him, so I have dubbed him YOUNG BRONSON. He is
> > > also quite an athlete. College coach said he was best SS and third
> > > basemen on the team. But can we at least get him a UNI that fits him.
>
> > > As for the rest of the clowns. Brandon usual doggit play on his fly to
> > > right. Mr. Massett with the 2 run gopher ball. Then a kick save by Votto
> > > and a little more gasoline on the fire by COCO and you hang on to a 6-4
> > > win. See if they can move forward tomorrow and sweep off of their
> > > nemesis  Oswalt.
>
> > Glavine looks like a decent comparison, aside from Leake being right-
> > handed.  Leake's got a great change-up, and he's fearless about
> > throwing it at any time in the count.  That, and effectively pitching
> > away, are what made Glavine successful.  I think Leake may have a
> > better fastball, too.
>
> It's just hard for me to believe though - that it has taken this
> organization as long as it has to finally not only draft a pitcher,
> but draft a great pitcher. That might sound premature to say that now,
> but this kids "secret" along with his control is that he keeps the
> freeking ball down!! You would think playing in a park like GABP that
> would basically be a prerequisite unless you have someone bringing
> some serious gas like Chapman.
>
> The sad part though IMO is that enjoy him while you can because he is
> just going to learn his craft even better and mature and one of the
> big market teams will gobble him up in three to four years before the
> trade deadline when we're "looking to cut payroll and fill some gaps."
> That's the part of baseball too me at least -living in the Nati' that
> makes me want to puke, we FINALLY have a good kid who is a real
> PITCHER but IMO when it's all said and done and he hangs em' up
> (barring a career threatening injury or tragedy) he will have
> accumulated seventy five percent of his wins with another team. Hope
> I'm wrong but I think it'd be safe to bet a grand on it. Can't wait to
> see if Chapman can pitch up here and then guess as to where he'll be
> playing in five years.:-( MLB in Cincinnati - you gotta love it.

Dude, why do you choose to be so negative? Leake will be a Red for AT
LEAST five years. We've got a rookie pitcher we can enjoy watching,
he's nothing but a positive for this team right now, but instead
you're already focused on thinking about bad news in 2015. If Mike
Leake is already bumming you out, what does it take to make you happy?
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