Old friends.....most of them real old.
in [Boston Red Sox]
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From: Wayback1918 on 17 Jan 2010 08:10 On Jan 17, 1:48 am, McDuck <wallyDELETEMEMcD...(a)comcast.net> wrote: > On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:37:20 -0500, "S/B 954RR" <jtibb...(a)yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > >"Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > >news:hiovej$jvi$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > >> Theo dumped Damon prematurely. > >> he would have been worth keeping after all. > >> he was very good for NY. > > >Damon did Theo a favor by acting like a dirtbag during negotiations. He > >left for the bright lights and they ended up wayyy overpaying for 2 good > >offensive years and four years of dogshit defense. > > The Damon negotiations were strange. The RS felt that their best offer > to Damon was not communicated to him by his agent. Thus the show of > Henry et al going to Texas to present the offer in person to Teixeira. > Anyway, the RS made their offer to Damon and concluded he would not > accept and quietly moved on. So, in some respects, the offer out there > was one they pretty much knew would not be accepted. It stayed out a > long time, which led to hard feels and misunderstandings from lots of > Sox fans. I really don't blame the RS front office for getting > frustrated, or same for Damon. There clearly was a mixup of some sort. > > I think that NYY overpaid. Yes, Damon got "market" in some sense, but > really, it is the next highest bidder that sets the market, not the > high bidder. so, when there is a big gap, I think we can say a team > overpaid even if we are talking about market prices. > > I think NYY got only 3 years of dogshit defense. The first year was > mediocre, not terrible. But the RS certainly had a major hole > offensively in CF with Coco as the replacement. NYY has lots of money > --- I don't think Damon hurt them competitively. The chart below lists the year...the innings played at the postion....the numbers of runs saved (minus is bad)....and where he ranked among others at his postion (according to the Fielding Bible) Damon in CF 2004 1256.1 Saved -11 Rank 32 2005 1225 Saved -6 Rank 29 2006 1086.2 Saved -1 Rank 24 2007 377 Saved -1 Rank 0 2008 285 Saved -2 Rank 0 Damon in LF 2007 271 Saved 4 Rank 0 2008 659.1 Saved 4 Rank 9 2009 1117.2 Saved -2 Rank 18 Damon hasn't been a good centerfielder since about 2003.....and even then he was only about league average. Although people in NY probably thought he was terrific after watching Bernie Williams' last few seasons. He should have been moved to left earlier but Manny & Matsui needed someplace to play.
From: S/B 954RR on 17 Jan 2010 11:27 "McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck(a)comcast.net> wrote in message news:t9c5l51g1v17cu1tdnn4re31bh1298qig3(a)4ax.com... > On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:37:20 -0500, "S/B 954RR" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com> > wrote: > >> >> >>"Ray O'Hara" <raymond-ohara(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>news:hiovej$jvi$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>> > >>> >>> Theo dumped Damon prematurely. >>> he would have been worth keeping after all. >>> he was very good for NY. >>> >>> >> >>Damon did Theo a favor by acting like a dirtbag during negotiations. He >>left for the bright lights and they ended up wayyy overpaying for 2 good >>offensive years and four years of dogshit defense. > > The Damon negotiations were strange. The RS felt that their best offer > to Damon was not communicated to him by his agent. Thus the show of > Henry et al going to Texas to present the offer in person to Teixeira. > Anyway, the RS made their offer to Damon and concluded he would not > accept and quietly moved on. So, in some respects, the offer out there > was one they pretty much knew would not be accepted. It stayed out a > long time, which led to hard feels and misunderstandings from lots of > Sox fans. I really don't blame the RS front office for getting > frustrated, or same for Damon. There clearly was a mixup of some sort. > > I think that NYY overpaid. Yes, Damon got "market" in some sense, but > really, it is the next highest bidder that sets the market, not the > high bidder. so, when there is a big gap, I think we can say a team > overpaid even if we are talking about market prices. > > I think NYY got only 3 years of dogshit defense. The first year was > mediocre, not terrible. But the RS certainly had a major hole > offensively in CF with Coco as the replacement. NYY has lots of money > --- I don't think Damon hurt them competitively. I don't think Damon hurt them either but at the same time he was paid a lot of money as a CF and ended up playing poorly in LF. Coco or not would you have wanted JD as the Sox CF for the past four years? Also, regarding negotiations, the Sox indicated that they expected the right of first refusal and he never gave them the opportunity to counter the Yankees offer.
From: McDuck on 17 Jan 2010 14:43 On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 11:27:27 -0500, "S/B 954RR" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > >"McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck(a)comcast.net> wrote in message >news:t9c5l51g1v17cu1tdnn4re31bh1298qig3(a)4ax.com... >> On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:37:20 -0500, "S/B 954RR" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>"Ray O'Hara" <raymond-ohara(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>news:hiovej$jvi$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>>> >> >>>> >>>> Theo dumped Damon prematurely. >>>> he would have been worth keeping after all. >>>> he was very good for NY. >>>> >>>> >>> >>>Damon did Theo a favor by acting like a dirtbag during negotiations. He >>>left for the bright lights and they ended up wayyy overpaying for 2 good >>>offensive years and four years of dogshit defense. >> >> The Damon negotiations were strange. The RS felt that their best offer >> to Damon was not communicated to him by his agent. Thus the show of >> Henry et al going to Texas to present the offer in person to Teixeira. >> Anyway, the RS made their offer to Damon and concluded he would not >> accept and quietly moved on. So, in some respects, the offer out there >> was one they pretty much knew would not be accepted. It stayed out a >> long time, which led to hard feels and misunderstandings from lots of >> Sox fans. I really don't blame the RS front office for getting >> frustrated, or same for Damon. There clearly was a mixup of some sort. >> >> I think that NYY overpaid. Yes, Damon got "market" in some sense, but >> really, it is the next highest bidder that sets the market, not the >> high bidder. so, when there is a big gap, I think we can say a team >> overpaid even if we are talking about market prices. >> >> I think NYY got only 3 years of dogshit defense. The first year was >> mediocre, not terrible. But the RS certainly had a major hole >> offensively in CF with Coco as the replacement. NYY has lots of money >> --- I don't think Damon hurt them competitively. > >I don't think Damon hurt them either but at the same time he was paid a lot >of money as a CF and ended up playing poorly in LF. Coco or not would you >have wanted JD as the Sox CF for the past four years? Also, regarding >negotiations, the Sox indicated that they expected the right of first >refusal and he never gave them the opportunity to counter the Yankees offer. I agree with you assessment of Damon. No, I would not have wanted him defensively in CF for the RS. No team has any right of first refusal, of course. I wonder why the RS thought they had one --- did Damon promise it? I have trouble believing Boras would make that kind of promise, as it would limit his ability to negotiate with NYY. It would have to be secret b/c NYY is not going to give an offer to be shopped with the RS. But there was something strange about the Damon negotiations, as I noted, and a fear by RS that Damon was being misled by his own agent.
From: Dano on 17 Jan 2010 15:02 "McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck(a)comcast.net> wrote in message news:1sp6l553kr9f0faib9m08r33ugjoohuelp(a)4ax.com... > On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 11:27:27 -0500, "S/B 954RR" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > >I don't think Damon hurt them either but at the same time he was paid a lot > >of money as a CF and ended up playing poorly in LF. Coco or not would you > >have wanted JD as the Sox CF for the past four years? Also, regarding > >negotiations, the Sox indicated that they expected the right of first > >refusal and he never gave them the opportunity to counter the Yankees offer. > > I agree with you assessment of Damon. No, I would not have wanted him > defensively in CF for the RS. > > No team has any right of first refusal, of course. I wonder why the RS > thought they had one --- did Damon promise it? I have trouble > believing Boras would make that kind of promise, as it would limit his > ability to negotiate with NYY. It would have to be secret b/c NYY is > not going to give an offer to be shopped with the RS. But there was > something strange about the Damon negotiations, as I noted, and a fear > by RS that Damon was being misled by his own agent. I would say they SHOULD have expected a chance to match the offer...IF as Damon claimed he really wished to remain with the Red Sox. That he chose NOT to give them another shot pretty well disabuses that notion does it not?
From: S/B 954RR on 17 Jan 2010 21:03
"McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck(a)comcast.net> wrote in message news:1sp6l553kr9f0faib9m08r33ugjoohuelp(a)4ax.com... > On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 11:27:27 -0500, "S/B 954RR" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com> > wrote: > >> >> >>"McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck(a)comcast.net> wrote in message >>news:t9c5l51g1v17cu1tdnn4re31bh1298qig3(a)4ax.com... >>> On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:37:20 -0500, "S/B 954RR" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>"Ray O'Hara" <raymond-ohara(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>news:hiovej$jvi$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> Theo dumped Damon prematurely. >>>>> he would have been worth keeping after all. >>>>> he was very good for NY. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>Damon did Theo a favor by acting like a dirtbag during negotiations. He >>>>left for the bright lights and they ended up wayyy overpaying for 2 good >>>>offensive years and four years of dogshit defense. >>> >>> The Damon negotiations were strange. The RS felt that their best offer >>> to Damon was not communicated to him by his agent. Thus the show of >>> Henry et al going to Texas to present the offer in person to Teixeira. >>> Anyway, the RS made their offer to Damon and concluded he would not >>> accept and quietly moved on. So, in some respects, the offer out there >>> was one they pretty much knew would not be accepted. It stayed out a >>> long time, which led to hard feels and misunderstandings from lots of >>> Sox fans. I really don't blame the RS front office for getting >>> frustrated, or same for Damon. There clearly was a mixup of some sort. >>> >>> I think that NYY overpaid. Yes, Damon got "market" in some sense, but >>> really, it is the next highest bidder that sets the market, not the >>> high bidder. so, when there is a big gap, I think we can say a team >>> overpaid even if we are talking about market prices. >>> >>> I think NYY got only 3 years of dogshit defense. The first year was >>> mediocre, not terrible. But the RS certainly had a major hole >>> offensively in CF with Coco as the replacement. NYY has lots of money >>> --- I don't think Damon hurt them competitively. >> >>I don't think Damon hurt them either but at the same time he was paid a >>lot >>of money as a CF and ended up playing poorly in LF. Coco or not would you >>have wanted JD as the Sox CF for the past four years? Also, regarding >>negotiations, the Sox indicated that they expected the right of first >>refusal and he never gave them the opportunity to counter the Yankees >>offer. > > I agree with you assessment of Damon. No, I would not have wanted him > defensively in CF for the RS. > > No team has any right of first refusal, of course. I wonder why the RS > thought they had one --- did Damon promise it? I have trouble > believing Boras would make that kind of promise, as it would limit his > ability to negotiate with NYY. It would have to be secret b/c NYY is > not going to give an offer to be shopped with the RS. But there was > something strange about the Damon negotiations, as I noted, and a fear > by RS that Damon was being misled by his own agent. Isn't that pretty much what Boras did for the Yankees last year in the Teixeira negotiations though? |