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From: McDuck on 18 Jan 2010 01:59 On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 21:03:34 -0500, "S/B 954RR" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > >"McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck(a)comcast.net> wrote in message >news:1sp6l553kr9f0faib9m08r33ugjoohuelp(a)4ax.com... >>> >>>I don't think Damon hurt them either but at the same time he was paid a >>>lot >>>of money as a CF and ended up playing poorly in LF. Coco or not would you >>>have wanted JD as the Sox CF for the past four years? Also, regarding >>>negotiations, the Sox indicated that they expected the right of first >>>refusal and he never gave them the opportunity to counter the Yankees >>>offer. >> >> I agree with you assessment of Damon. No, I would not have wanted him >> defensively in CF for the RS. >> >> No team has any right of first refusal, of course. I wonder why the RS >> thought they had one --- did Damon promise it? I have trouble >> believing Boras would make that kind of promise, as it would limit his >> ability to negotiate with NYY. It would have to be secret b/c NYY is >> not going to give an offer to be shopped with the RS. But there was >> something strange about the Damon negotiations, as I noted, and a fear >> by RS that Damon was being misled by his own agent. > >Isn't that pretty much what Boras did for the Yankees last year in the >Teixeira negotiations though? Not clear to me that is what happened. The RS made a v. good offer for Teixeira and Boras asked for more and the RS declined. He took the RS offer to NYY and NYY made a better offer, take it or leave it now (no going back to Boston). And Boras and Teixeira took it. At least that is my memory of what happened (memory and unreliable 3rd party stories, of course). Anyway, the above is a common form of baseball negotiations. When the teams get rather close to a deal, they typically make the offer an exploding one ---short time limit and no negotiating with the other teams. A team typically cannot do that early in the process or the player just rejects the offer and tests the market. But when most teams have dropped out, the teams left have enough leverage to make that kind of offer. Now, it may be that Boras has indicated to NYY that he would come to them with the RS offer at the end. I did hear something like that, as a rumor, of course. If so, you may be right that it sort of was a right of last refusal or something. If something like that happened, I'd guess it was more informal --- that Cashman had some preliminary discussions and told Boras to come back when he was ready and Boras indicated he would. But if the RS had made an explodng offer of their own and Boras had doubts he could do better with NYY, I assume he'd have taken the RS offer. Or maybe Teixeira really did have a thing about pin stripes.
From: Dano on 18 Jan 2010 07:08 McDuck wrote: > On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 21:03:34 -0500, "S/B 954RR" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com> > wrote: > >> >> >> "McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck(a)comcast.net> wrote in message >> news:1sp6l553kr9f0faib9m08r33ugjoohuelp(a)4ax.com... > >>>> >>>> I don't think Damon hurt them either but at the same time he was >>>> paid a lot >>>> of money as a CF and ended up playing poorly in LF. Coco or not >>>> would you have wanted JD as the Sox CF for the past four years? >>>> Also, regarding negotiations, the Sox indicated that they expected >>>> the right of first refusal and he never gave them the opportunity >>>> to counter the Yankees offer. >>> >>> I agree with you assessment of Damon. No, I would not have wanted >>> him defensively in CF for the RS. >>> >>> No team has any right of first refusal, of course. I wonder why the >>> RS thought they had one --- did Damon promise it? I have trouble >>> believing Boras would make that kind of promise, as it would limit >>> his ability to negotiate with NYY. It would have to be secret b/c >>> NYY is not going to give an offer to be shopped with the RS. But >>> there was something strange about the Damon negotiations, as I >>> noted, and a fear by RS that Damon was being misled by his own >>> agent. >> >> Isn't that pretty much what Boras did for the Yankees last year in >> the Teixeira negotiations though? > > Not clear to me that is what happened. The RS made a v. good offer for > Teixeira and Boras asked for more and the RS declined. He took the RS > offer to NYY and NYY made a better offer, take it or leave it now (no > going back to Boston). And Boras and Teixeira took it. At least that > is my memory of what happened (memory and unreliable 3rd party > stories, of course). > > Anyway, the above is a common form of baseball negotiations. When the > teams get rather close to a deal, they typically make the offer an > exploding one ---short time limit and no negotiating with the other > teams. A team typically cannot do that early in the process or the > player just rejects the offer and tests the market. But when most > teams have dropped out, the teams left have enough leverage to make > that kind of offer. > > Now, it may be that Boras has indicated to NYY that he would come to > them with the RS offer at the end. I did hear something like that, as > a rumor, of course. If so, you may be right that it sort of was a > right of last refusal or something. If something like that happened, > I'd guess it was more informal --- that Cashman had some preliminary > discussions and told Boras to come back when he was ready and Boras > indicated he would. But if the RS had made an explodng offer of their > own and Boras had doubts he could do better with NYY, I assume he'd > have taken the RS offer. > > Or maybe Teixeira really did have a thing about pin stripes. To get back to the point about Damon...all I was saying was that HE made the choice. The Red Sox made a fair offer as I recall it. Not that much less than what he ultimately accepted from the Yanks. Speaking of rumors...because that's pretty much all this talk really is...NY was thought to have told JD and Boras that the deal was only briefly on the table and would not wait for them to shop it further. They risked losing that offer and took it without the Red Sox getting an opportunity to match. That was their prerogative of course...but hardly the fault of Theo. Johnny after all, supposedly wished to stay in Boston. Maybe they would have match...maybe not. But it was DAMON'S choice. That's all I was saying. There was nothing about the negotiation that indicated they were not dealing in good faith IMO. They wanted him back...at a fair price. This notion that they were out to clean out the "Dirt Dogs" is ludicrous.
From: McDuck on 18 Jan 2010 23:12 On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 07:08:53 -0500, "Dano" <janeanddano(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >McDuck wrote: >> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 21:03:34 -0500, "S/B 954RR" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com> >> wrote: > But it was DAMON'S choice. That's all I was saying. >There was nothing about the negotiation that indicated they were not dealing >in good faith IMO. They wanted him back...at a fair price. This notion >that they were out to clean out the "Dirt Dogs" is ludicrous. > Not my topic, but I agree. There may have been some appearance to Damon of a lack of genuine interest in that the RS moved on rather quietly, doing a series of deals (e.g., Renteria for Marta??) to get Coco.
From: S/B 954RR on 19 Jan 2010 22:49 "McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck(a)comcast.net> wrote in message news:2318l51tnolcouuin5aq75842dpc12q2vs(a)4ax.com... > On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 21:03:34 -0500, "S/B 954RR" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com> > wrote: > >> >> >>"McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck(a)comcast.net> wrote in message >>news:1sp6l553kr9f0faib9m08r33ugjoohuelp(a)4ax.com... > >>>> >>>>I don't think Damon hurt them either but at the same time he was paid a >>>>lot >>>>of money as a CF and ended up playing poorly in LF. Coco or not would >>>>you >>>>have wanted JD as the Sox CF for the past four years? Also, regarding >>>>negotiations, the Sox indicated that they expected the right of first >>>>refusal and he never gave them the opportunity to counter the Yankees >>>>offer. >>> >>> I agree with you assessment of Damon. No, I would not have wanted him >>> defensively in CF for the RS. >>> >>> No team has any right of first refusal, of course. I wonder why the RS >>> thought they had one --- did Damon promise it? I have trouble >>> believing Boras would make that kind of promise, as it would limit his >>> ability to negotiate with NYY. It would have to be secret b/c NYY is >>> not going to give an offer to be shopped with the RS. But there was >>> something strange about the Damon negotiations, as I noted, and a fear >>> by RS that Damon was being misled by his own agent. >> >>Isn't that pretty much what Boras did for the Yankees last year in the >>Teixeira negotiations though? > > Not clear to me that is what happened. The RS made a v. good offer for > Teixeira and Boras asked for more and the RS declined. He took the RS > offer to NYY and NYY made a better offer, take it or leave it now (no > going back to Boston). And Boras and Teixeira took it. At least that > is my memory of what happened (memory and unreliable 3rd party > stories, of course). > > Anyway, the above is a common form of baseball negotiations. When the > teams get rather close to a deal, they typically make the offer an > exploding one ---short time limit and no negotiating with the other > teams. A team typically cannot do that early in the process or the > player just rejects the offer and tests the market. But when most > teams have dropped out, the teams left have enough leverage to make > that kind of offer. > > Now, it may be that Boras has indicated to NYY that he would come to > them with the RS offer at the end. I did hear something like that, as > a rumor, of course. If so, you may be right that it sort of was a > right of last refusal or something. If something like that happened, > I'd guess it was more informal --- that Cashman had some preliminary > discussions and told Boras to come back when he was ready and Boras > indicated he would. But if the RS had made an explodng offer of their > own and Boras had doubts he could do better with NYY, I assume he'd > have taken the RS offer. > > Or maybe Teixeira really did have a thing about pin stripes. Or his wife had a thing about NY.
From: S/B 954RR on 19 Jan 2010 22:52
"McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck(a)comcast.net> wrote in message news:74cal5l88ehsda8v9k51lm249j51bei59p(a)4ax.com... > On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 07:08:53 -0500, "Dano" <janeanddano(a)yahoo.com> > wrote: > >>McDuck wrote: >>> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 21:03:34 -0500, "S/B 954RR" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com> >>> wrote: >> But it was DAMON'S choice. That's all I was saying. >>There was nothing about the negotiation that indicated they were not >>dealing >>in good faith IMO. They wanted him back...at a fair price. This notion >>that they were out to clean out the "Dirt Dogs" is ludicrous. >> > > Not my topic, but I agree. There may have been some appearance to > Damon of a lack of genuine interest in that the RS moved on rather > quietly, doing a series of deals (e.g., Renteria for Marta??) to get > Coco. I think that was more of a contingency. At the time Marte was one of, if not the top 3B prospect in baseball and to get him while unloading Renteria seemed to be the priority. |