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From: Bob Braun on 7 May 2010 12:50

"David Short" <David.No.Short.(a)Spam.wright.Please.edu> wrote in message
news:hs14s6$1r7$1(a)posting.glorb.com...
> On 5/6/2010 1:57 PM, JustTom wrote:
>> The total dismantling of this offense in the name of defense and
>> pitching has been flat out disheartening, even ignoring the fact that
>> our pitching and defense isn't any better. The offense we had in the
>> middle of the decade wasn't the reason we weren't winning, and the
>> "small ball" direction we've taken since blatantly ignores GABP. I
>> can't think of any other team that has gone away from the core
>> advantage of their home ballpark as much as the reds. Can you?
>
> I know front office lip service was given to pitching and defense, but was
> the reds offense really dismantled?
>
> I think it's more believable to say they just didn't like the players they
> had.
>
> Junior. His stay here was never what anyone envisioned back in 2000. I
> don't believe Junior would have taken kindly to the senior statesman off
> the bench role here. You keep him around and every city you go to the
> manager has to answer questions about junior and the poor kid who replaces
> him is looking over his shoulder and....Junior had to go. You can argue
> that they should have let go earlier than they did.
>
> Adam Dunn. Yeah, I miss the offense too and every once in a while when
> Gomes is out there waiving his mitt as the ball goes by I remember Adam
> fondly. It's odd that we heard "Junior won't move out of center" and "Dunn
> won't move to first" when both made the move when asked. That's the price
> of front office and managerial turnover. As much as I miss the offense,
> the rest of Dunn's game was(is) a train wreck. He can't throw. He
> runs....well He's not a good baserunner. I don't know why the reds didn't
> just stick him in the 4 or 5 hole and forget about him, but they were
> always farting around with where he hit. Everybody thought he was going to
> break the bank and not be affordable. We all missed predicting the great
> Free Agent Market crash of 08/09.
>
> Josh Hamilton. What a rule v pickup, but nobody in the front office had
> long term ties to Josh and once Narron was let go, nobody in the
> organization did either. I know Bob/Mike/Danny's point of view that he was
> a monster talent, but there clearly were lifestyle risks here. It is
> ironic that they ended up with another lifestyle issue in return.
>
> Ryan Freel? That's not the kind of player or person that you build your
> franchise around.
>
> Edwin? Edwin wasn't sacrificed on the alter of pitching and defense. Edwin
> was sent packing because he wasn't coming around as a hitter.
>
> So....yeah, that team was dismantled, but there were good reasons to make
> every one of those moves and for the most part....nobody wants those
> players back. The only ones I would really want back would be Hamilton and
> Dunn.

This 'Small Market' team had the chance to set their outfield for
years.....monster potential.....at a bargain price. Dunn-Hamilton-Bruce.

Life style risk? Absolutely. But hell, you didn't have to pay him squat!
What risk?

For Hamilton, you got a TJ patient, head case, who got caught using PHD's!
They have had a revolving door of outfielder's scrambling to fill the voids
left by Dunn/Hamilton.

The Reds were well on their way to a rebuild until that December day when
they made the Hamilton trade. I said it then, and STILL believe it now.
Dumb trade!


From: Bob Braun on 7 May 2010 12:57

"Bob Braun" <oxinfla(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hs1gc1$bv3$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "David Short" <David.No.Short.(a)Spam.wright.Please.edu> wrote in message
> news:hs14s6$1r7$1(a)posting.glorb.com...
>> On 5/6/2010 1:57 PM, JustTom wrote:
>>> The total dismantling of this offense in the name of defense and
>>> pitching has been flat out disheartening, even ignoring the fact that
>>> our pitching and defense isn't any better. The offense we had in the
>>> middle of the decade wasn't the reason we weren't winning, and the
>>> "small ball" direction we've taken since blatantly ignores GABP. I
>>> can't think of any other team that has gone away from the core
>>> advantage of their home ballpark as much as the reds. Can you?
>>
>> I know front office lip service was given to pitching and defense, but
>> was the reds offense really dismantled?
>>
>> I think it's more believable to say they just didn't like the players
>> they had.
>>
>> Junior. His stay here was never what anyone envisioned back in 2000. I
>> don't believe Junior would have taken kindly to the senior statesman off
>> the bench role here. You keep him around and every city you go to the
>> manager has to answer questions about junior and the poor kid who
>> replaces him is looking over his shoulder and....Junior had to go. You
>> can argue that they should have let go earlier than they did.
>>
>> Adam Dunn. Yeah, I miss the offense too and every once in a while when
>> Gomes is out there waiving his mitt as the ball goes by I remember Adam
>> fondly. It's odd that we heard "Junior won't move out of center" and
>> "Dunn won't move to first" when both made the move when asked. That's the
>> price of front office and managerial turnover. As much as I miss the
>> offense, the rest of Dunn's game was(is) a train wreck. He can't throw.
>> He runs....well He's not a good baserunner. I don't know why the reds
>> didn't just stick him in the 4 or 5 hole and forget about him, but they
>> were always farting around with where he hit. Everybody thought he was
>> going to break the bank and not be affordable. We all missed predicting
>> the great Free Agent Market crash of 08/09.
>>
>> Josh Hamilton. What a rule v pickup, but nobody in the front office had
>> long term ties to Josh and once Narron was let go, nobody in the
>> organization did either. I know Bob/Mike/Danny's point of view that he
>> was a monster talent, but there clearly were lifestyle risks here. It is
>> ironic that they ended up with another lifestyle issue in return.
>>
>> Ryan Freel? That's not the kind of player or person that you build your
>> franchise around.
>>
>> Edwin? Edwin wasn't sacrificed on the alter of pitching and defense.
>> Edwin was sent packing because he wasn't coming around as a hitter.
>>
>> So....yeah, that team was dismantled, but there were good reasons to make
>> every one of those moves and for the most part....nobody wants those
>> players back. The only ones I would really want back would be Hamilton
>> and Dunn.
>
> This 'Small Market' team had the chance to set their outfield for
> years.....monster potential.....at a bargain price. Dunn-Hamilton-Bruce.
>
> Life style risk? Absolutely. But hell, you didn't have to pay him squat!
> What risk?
>
> For Hamilton, you got a TJ patient, head case, who got caught using PHD's!

Too funny! Like I said.........when I get pissed.....I pound
keys........PED'S....I'm not real concerned that EV will get anywhere near a
PHD!!!!!!!!!


From: John Kasupski on 7 May 2010 19:06
On Fri, 07 May 2010 09:34:03 -0400, David Short
<David.No.Short.(a)Spam.wright.Please.edu> wrote:

>Edwin? Edwin wasn't sacrificed on the alter of pitching and defense.
>Edwin was sent packing because he wasn't coming around as a hitter.

To be honest about it though, I'm sure his penchant for throwing balls into
right field didn't help him any.

>Now...Has anybody played against park and won?
>
>The Rockies are a better ball club since they lost the fascination with
>high altitude hitting and starting trying to assemble a club that could
>play well anywhere.
>
>The good dodger teams were always teams that could hit. With that park
>the pitching will always look good.
>
>Likewise the good red sox teams have always been able to pitch in Fenway.
>
>The cubs ...well, they've never been any good so we don't worry about them.

Nonetheless, they're a case in point because of their ballpark. Or to be more
precise, because of their ballpark's location in relationship to Lake Michigan.
In the summer, when the wind is blowing out at Wrigley Field, routine
medium-deep fly balls become round-trippers. When somebody *really* gets the
wood into one, it's a tape-measure shot - Sosa and Kingman broke windows in
apartment buildings on Waveland Ave. and Glenallen Hill put one on a rooftop
over there, and Kingman also landed one on the third porch roof on the center
field side of Kenmore Avenue, the north-south street that T's into Waveland
which had to have gone 500 feet on the fly.

The thing is that in April and May the wind tends to blow in and turns what
should be home runs into outs...like Hank Aaron's ball in '69 when Ken Holtzman
threw his first no hitter - on a calm day that would have been on Waveland Ave.
but the wind held it back and Billy Williams was able to make a leaping catch to
preserve the no-no.

And this doesn't even touch what happens when they get the cross-wind that blows
from the left field corner to the right field corner. The wind is less of a
factor for night games because they don't blow as hard after the sun sets, but
the Scrubs still play most of their home games during the day, don't they?

Anyway, it's not like we have a lineup of seven leadoff hitters and Jack Clark
or anything like that (and I think right now we'd all happily settle for just
one leadoff hitter). There's still several guys in this lineup who can go deep,
Votto, Phillips, Rolen, Bruce, Gomes, Nix, but you do play half your games on
the road, too. Think about the ballpark in San Diego and what the Reds' track
record on trips to Petco has been over the years. No...I stand by my original
statement, if you're going to build a team that can't score unless it hits home
runs, you're going to build a losing team.

JK

From: John Kasupski on 7 May 2010 19:10
On Fri, 7 May 2010 12:57:02 -0400, "Bob Braun" <oxinfla(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

>> For Hamilton, you got a TJ patient, head case, who got caught using PHD's!
>
>Too funny! Like I said.........when I get pissed.....I pound
>keys........PED'S....I'm not real concerned that EV will get anywhere near a
>PHD!!!!!!!!!

LOL. Yeah, I was going to make some sort of remark...like they probably have a
few PhD's in the front office somewhere.

JK

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