From: Brian Douglas on 18 May 2010 18:49
"john smith" <eddygdvd(a)msn.com> wrote in message
> It was really sad seeing Hoffman struggle like that. He looked like he
> was just throwing up that slop with virtually no viable fastball to back
> it up with. Hoffman had a great career but may just be done at this
> point in time. I did enjoy watching him over the years and to be the all
> time saves leader is a great accomplishment.
Very sad. I wanted us to succeed and glad we did. But yes, it's painful to
watch a great player fall off to that.
From: tom dunne on 18 May 2010 20:47
On May 18, 5:05 pm, John Kasupski <w2...(a)spamfilter.verizon.net>
> On Tue, 18 May 2010 13:29:07 -0700 (PDT), tom dunne <dunn...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >On May 18, 3:55 pm, HTP <tmbowma...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> in both of these games against the Brewers, with the Reds trailing for
> >> most of each game, did anyone else just know that the Reds would
> >> eventually win?
> >I was encouraged in part that they were facing Trevor Hoffman. Dude
> >has utterly fallen apart. He's 42 but was as dominant as he's ever
> >been last season. This year, he looks like a guy whose career is
> >totally over.
> It's sad, really, to see what was once such a great closer reduced to literally
> not being able to get anybody out in the ninth today. The Brewers' bullpen
> problem isn't just Hoffman. Part of the problem has been overwork due to short
> outings by their starters, like parra only going four innings today. But their
> pen has given up more hits than any other bullpen in the NL and Hoffman is
> indeed part of that problem, he's now given up something like 20 hits in 13
> innings this year, and 19 earned runs. His next appearance will be number 1000,
> the 14th pitcher in MLB history to make that many. After that, he should
> seriously consider hanging up his spikes. He was always pretty much a
> fastball/changeup guy and his change isn't fooling anybody anymore.
It's especially sad to see a good guy and a hard worker go. Many
pitchers who had his injuries and lost so much velocity would have
retired; Hoffman reinvented himself to become a likely Hall of Famer.
I see him hanging on at least to get 600 saves, I think he needs just
four more. Still, it's weird to see a guy lose it this fast. Look at
his numbers last year and he was great, and he made the All-Star
team. Look at them this season, and he doesn't belong in a uniform.
Here's hoping he turns it around enough to get through the season.
From: Thomas R. Kettler on 18 May 2010 21:21
In article <hsv5h6$20u$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>,
"Brian Douglas" <airpower104(a)comcast.net> wrote:
> "john smith" <eddygdvd(a)msn.com> wrote in message
> > It was really sad seeing Hoffman struggle like that. He looked like he
> > was just throwing up that slop with virtually no viable fastball to back
> > it up with. Hoffman had a great career but may just be done at this
> > point in time. I did enjoy watching him over the years and to be the all
> > time saves leader is a great accomplishment.
> Very sad. I wanted us to succeed and glad we did. But yes, it's painful to
> watch a great player fall off to that.
How many people remember that Trevor Hoffman started in the Reds farm
system but was left unprotected in the 1993 expansion draft?
Also, the Reds had Jeff Montgomery but traded him to the Royals for the
immortal Van Snider.
While saves are vastly overrated, they have 900 (at present) between the
two of them with none happening for the Reds.
Remove blown from email address to reply.
From: John Kasupski on 19 May 2010 14:01
On Tue, 18 May 2010 21:21:25 -0400, "Thomas R. Kettler" <tkettler(a)blownfuse.net>
>How many people remember that Trevor Hoffman started in the Reds farm
>system but was left unprotected in the 1993 expansion draft?
Well, 1992, but yes, grabbed as the eighth by the Marlins, where he was steady
if unspectacular for the one year he was there before being traded to the Padres
in the deal that sent Gary Sheffield to Florida, and blossomed into one of the
best closers in baseball history.
>Also, the Reds had Jeff Montgomery but traded him to the Royals for the
>immortal Van Snider.
In spite of the lousy numbers he had the one partial season he pitched for the
Reds, I thought that it was a mistake to get rid of Montgomery when they traded
him. For the four years from 1990-1993 I thought he was one of the best closers
in the game. They could've moved Charlton into the rotation and not even needed
to sign Mahler while Montgomery became the third Nasty Boy along with Dibble and
Myers...if they had even needed to trade Franco for Myers, which they might not
have felt necessary if they'd still had Montgomery.
At least they got a decent player - Hal Morris - and a minor leaguer in return
for Snider (and Tim Leary, who never really amounted to squat anyway and almost
lost 20 games for the Yankees while leading MLB in wild pitches the year after
the Reds dumped him).
if we're going to tell "the closer that got away" stories, a less prominent
closer the Reds traded away where I thought they blew it was half a dozen or so
years later with Jeff Shaw. Shaw went on to have three or four more very good
years closing for the hated Dodgers, while we wound up with Aunt Bea's Pickles,
which was bad enough, but if you trace the chain of deals that followed it gets
We got Dennys Reyes and Paul Konerko for Shaw. Reyes never really impressed me
here anyway and they eventually packaged him with Pokey Reese and got Luke
Hudson and Gabe White for him. White was so good they got rid of him three times
and Hudson never amounted to squat. As for Konerko, they traded him to the White
Sox, where he became a superstar and won a WS ring, and in return they got Mike
Cameron, who they eventually traded to Seattle for Junior.
Hindsight is 20-20 but in retrospect, we might've been better off keeping
Konerko, even though that probably means The Mayor never plays an inning for the
Reds, because (1) that might mean they keep Dave Burba who won 15, 15, and 16
games for the Indians in the three years after they traded him for Casey, and
because (2) it then doesn't become necessary to dump Casey's salary in '05 and
we probably don't have to suffer through David Williams' demonstration of the
fact that he's not a major league pitcher.
And, oh yeah, who did they get from the Mets for Williams? Robert Manuel, who
they traded to Seattle for Balentien, who's not exactly tearing up the NL - or
any league for that matter. He's currently hitting .219 in Louisville. And as of
today Konerko is leading the AL in homers, is third in slugging, fifth in OBP,
and while not a Gold Glover is still one of the better fielding first basemen in
that league - another black mark on the ledger after Leatherpants' name.
From: David Short on 19 May 2010 16:58
On 5/19/2010 2:01 PM, John Kasupski wrote:
> Hindsight is 20-20 but in retrospect, we might've been better off keeping
They had Konerko, Young, Casey, Perez and Roberto Petiguine who probably
could have played a major league first base as well. None of them could
really play anywhere but first. Cameron was exactly what the team
needed, a young centerfielder who could hit a little bit. I'm sure they
would have traded ANY of "the imobile five" for that. They sold
Petiguine, put Cameron in center, pencilled Casey in at first and then
stuck Young in left and closed thier eyes and....had a baseball team.
None of them were really elite first basemen. Young had the best single
year among them. Konerko had the best career. Casey was probably the
highest touted. In retrospect they're all the kind of player that you
employ for the first 6 years of their career, but you don't give
multiyear multimillion dollar contracts to. You can always find another
body to put at first that can come up with an OPS+ of 115.