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From: Laurence Smith on 7 Jun 2010 16:34 I notice that the Brewers gave up on Jeff Suppan today. He's their version of Oliver Perez. Actually Ollie's pitched better than Suppan if you're comparing awfulness. The point is that Milwaukee is a small market team that is willing to eat a huge chunk of salary. http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3294 This says his 2010 salary is over $12 million. Will the Wilpons ever get the message that if you have to pay the guy anyway it's better to release him if he's just clogging up a roster spot and not contributing? -- Larry Smith
From: Matt on 7 Jun 2010 18:12 On Jun 7, 2:34 pm, "Laurence Smith" <dr4si...(a)hvi.net> wrote: > I notice that the Brewers gave up on Jeff Suppan today. He's their > version of Oliver Perez. Actually Ollie's pitched better than Suppan > if you're comparing awfulness. > The point is that Milwaukee is a small market team that is willing to > eat a huge chunk of salary. > > http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3294 > > This says his 2010 salary is over $12 million. > > Will the Wilpons ever get the message that if you have to pay the guy > anyway it's better to release him if he's just clogging up a roster > spot and not contributing? While not arguing, I will point out Suppan is 35. Ollie is not quite 29. So, while I agree that Perez is worthless, you can make the case that he COULD work things out, while Suppan is pretty much done. I also seem to recall Jeff had some injuries, most notably back problems. Matt
From: Ruben Safir on 8 Jun 2010 10:07 Matt <matttelles(a)sprynet.com> wrote: > On Jun 7, 2:34 pm, "Laurence Smith" <dr4si...(a)hvi.net> wrote: >> I notice that the Brewers gave up on Jeff Suppan today. He's their >> version of Oliver Perez. Actually Ollie's pitched better than Suppan >> if you're comparing awfulness. >> The point is that Milwaukee is a small market team that is willing to >> eat a huge chunk of salary. >> >> http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3294 >> >> This says his 2010 salary is over $12 million. >> >> Will the Wilpons ever get the message that if you have to pay the guy >> anyway it's better to release him if he's just clogging up a roster >> spot and not contributing? > > While not arguing, I will point out Suppan is 35. Ollie is not quite > 29. > So, while I agree that Perez is worthless, you can make the case that > he COULD work things out, while Suppan is pretty much done. I also > seem to recall Jeff had some injuries, most notably back problems. > > Matt There is an essential problem though, that while not exclusive to the Mets, the Mets suffer from this more than other teams that are smarter about winning. This afflication targets mostly larger market teams...California, San Francisco, Chicago (Both Teams), Houston and the Mets. These team build rosters based on a mixture of talent. They develop youngsters, trade, and sign a number of big contract free agents. With regards to the large contracts, they get skirmish, and they keep these players in the line up or rotation, regardless of how they perform, because of finances. This is a huge mistake. With any number of signings, many will be good, some will be complete busts, and in rare cases, a player will actually pay up to his contract for the length of the deal. Frankly, this last event is rare. Only a few players live up to their contract's expectations, especially in the out years. There is Greg Maddox,Alex Rodriguez, Josh Beckett, perhaps Manny Rameriz...and then it starts getting thin. Too high of an exceptation is a major issue for these clubs for big ticket players. Most end up in the first category. They give you a number of good seasons, and then age. Vlad Guerraro, Delgado, Martinez, these come to mind. Beltran is likely to be in this category. The big mistake for these clubs, however, is letting the signings prevent the club from creating the best 40 man roster that they can. Ultimately, for all the signings, they lose track of the purpose of these deals. They are not made to see player XYZ pitch 300 innings. They are made for the purpose of making the 40 man roster the best possible 40 man they can create. Once the expenditures are made, the team has to then proceed by putting the best 40 man rosters together that they can, REGARDLESS of contract obligations. Otherwise they undermine their essential purpose, which is to put a revenue creating winning team on the field. Ruben
From: Matt on 8 Jun 2010 10:45 On Jun 8, 8:07 am, Ruben Safir <mrbrk...(a)panix.com> wrote: > Matt <matttel...(a)sprynet.com> wrote: > > On Jun 7, 2:34 pm, "Laurence Smith" <dr4si...(a)hvi.net> wrote: > >> I notice that the Brewers gave up on Jeff Suppan today. He's their > >> version of Oliver Perez. Actually Ollie's pitched better than Suppan > >> if you're comparing awfulness. > >> The point is that Milwaukee is a small market team that is willing to > >> eat a huge chunk of salary. > > >>http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3294 > > >> This says his 2010 salary is over $12 million. > > >> Will the Wilpons ever get the message that if you have to pay the guy > >> anyway it's better to release him if he's just clogging up a roster > >> spot and not contributing? > > > While not arguing, I will point out Suppan is 35. Ollie is not quite > > 29. > > So, while I agree that Perez is worthless, you can make the case that > > he COULD work things out, while Suppan is pretty much done. I also > > seem to recall Jeff had some injuries, most notably back problems. > > > Matt > > There is an essential problem though, that while not exclusive to the > Mets, the Mets suffer from this more than other teams that are smarter > about winning. This afflication targets mostly larger market > teams...California, San Francisco, Chicago (Both Teams), Houston and the > Mets. > > These team build rosters based on a mixture of talent. They develop > youngsters, trade, and sign a number of big contract free agents. With > regards to the large contracts, they get skirmish, and they keep these > players in the line up or rotation, regardless of how they perform, > because of finances. > > This is a huge mistake. > > With any number of signings, many will be good, some will be complete > busts, and in rare cases, a player will actually pay up to his contract > for the length of the deal. Frankly, this last event is rare. Only a > few players live up to their contract's expectations, especially in the > out years. There is Greg Maddox,Alex Rodriguez, Josh Beckett, perhaps > Manny Rameriz...and then it starts getting thin. > > Too high of an exceptation is a major issue for these clubs for big > ticket players. Most end up in the first category. They give you a > number of good seasons, and then age. Vlad Guerraro, Delgado, Martinez, > these come to mind. Beltran is likely to be in this category. > > The big mistake for these clubs, however, is letting the signings > prevent the club from creating the best 40 man roster that they can. > Ultimately, for all the signings, they lose track of the purpose of > these deals. They are not made to see player XYZ pitch 300 innings. > They are made for the purpose of making the 40 man roster the best > possible 40 man they can create. Once the expenditures are made, the > team has to then proceed by putting the best 40 man rosters together > that they can, REGARDLESS of contract obligations. Otherwise they > undermine their essential purpose, which is to put a revenue creating > winning team on the field. Okay, this is certainly true, and I agree the big market teams are the worst at it (look at the Yankees). However, I would disagree that the Mets are only trading for big name talent. Look at Wright, Reyes, Pelfrey and Tejada, all on the team. Admittedly, Tejada really shouldn't be there if they had signed a decent second baseman, but still... I think they are starting to get it, but we'll see. Matt
From: jonathan on 8 Jun 2010 13:41
On Jun 8, 10:45 am, Matt <matttel...(a)sprynet.com> wrote: > On Jun 8, 8:07 am, Ruben Safir <mrbrk...(a)panix.com> wrote: > > > > > Matt <matttel...(a)sprynet.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 7, 2:34 pm, "Laurence Smith" <dr4si...(a)hvi.net> wrote: > > >> I notice that the Brewers gave up on Jeff Suppan today. He's their > > >> version of Oliver Perez. Actually Ollie's pitched better than Suppan > > >> if you're comparing awfulness. > > >> The point is that Milwaukee is a small market team that is willing to > > >> eat a huge chunk of salary. > > > >>http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3294 > > > >> This says his 2010 salary is over $12 million. > > > >> Will the Wilpons ever get the message that if you have to pay the guy > > >> anyway it's better to release him if he's just clogging up a roster > > >> spot and not contributing? > > > > While not arguing, I will point out Suppan is 35. Ollie is not quite > > > 29. > > > So, while I agree that Perez is worthless, you can make the case that > > > he COULD work things out, while Suppan is pretty much done. I also > > > seem to recall Jeff had some injuries, most notably back problems. > > > > Matt > > > There is an essential problem though, that while not exclusive to the > > Mets, the Mets suffer from this more than other teams that are smarter > > about winning. This afflication targets mostly larger market > > teams...California, San Francisco, Chicago (Both Teams), Houston and the > > Mets. > > > These team build rosters based on a mixture of talent. They develop > > youngsters, trade, and sign a number of big contract free agents. With > > regards to the large contracts, they get skirmish, and they keep these > > players in the line up or rotation, regardless of how they perform, > > because of finances. > > > This is a huge mistake. > > > With any number of signings, many will be good, some will be complete > > busts, and in rare cases, a player will actually pay up to his contract > > for the length of the deal. Frankly, this last event is rare. Only a > > few players live up to their contract's expectations, especially in the > > out years. There is Greg Maddox,Alex Rodriguez, Josh Beckett, perhaps > > Manny Rameriz...and then it starts getting thin. > > > Too high of an exceptation is a major issue for these clubs for big > > ticket players. Most end up in the first category. They give you a > > number of good seasons, and then age. Vlad Guerraro, Delgado, Martinez, > > these come to mind. Beltran is likely to be in this category. > > > The big mistake for these clubs, however, is letting the signings > > prevent the club from creating the best 40 man roster that they can. > > Ultimately, for all the signings, they lose track of the purpose of > > these deals. They are not made to see player XYZ pitch 300 innings. > > They are made for the purpose of making the 40 man roster the best > > possible 40 man they can create. Once the expenditures are made, the > > team has to then proceed by putting the best 40 man rosters together > > that they can, REGARDLESS of contract obligations. Otherwise they > > undermine their essential purpose, which is to put a revenue creating > > winning team on the field. > > Okay, this is certainly true, and I agree the big market teams are the > worst at it (look at the Yankees). However, I would disagree that the > Mets > are only trading for big name talent. Look at Wright, Reyes, Pelfrey > and > Tejada, all on the team. Admittedly, Tejada really shouldn't be there > if they > had signed a decent second baseman, but still... > > I think they are starting to get it, but we'll see. > > Matt With all due respect, they're not 'getting' anything. They're stuck because they have severe budget limitations given the Madoff scenario coupled with an economic collapse that has made their new cash-cow stadium not quite the cash cow they envisioned. Tejada is playing because their overpriced free agent (Castillo) is injured and their significantly less-priced free agent (Cora) has been SO BAD that there's no justification for playing him at this point by a manager and GM who are both on the hot seat. Don't mistake desperation for a plan with this franchise. Mejia isn't up because this is a plan in his development. He's up because the manager begged for him. Davis is up because Mike Jacobs and Fernando Tatis suck and the fan outcry was so huge that even the Wilpons couldn't ignore it. Again, that wasn't a development plan. It was reactionary. Everything this organization does is reactionary and none of it is based on an overriding plan. If they had a plan, you could see a pattern to what they do. There is no pattern because there is no plan. They don't pick a philosophy and stick to it. Whether it's offense, defense, pitching, or baserunning, the Mets basically change their mind as soon as the wind blows. This is why there is no stability. This is quite simply one of the worst run organizations in the game because it has no plan. I know I beat the Red Sox example to death, but everybody killed them at the beginning of the season about how their grand plan didn't work. They're 4 games out of first place tied with the Yankees. They didn't panic when they were 8 1/2 games back in the middle of May. They stuck to their plan. Guys are starting to get healthy now and all of the sudden they went 14-5 and the AL East is a 3-team race again. They stick to their plan. Even the Yankees stick to their plan. The Mets go for whatever the newest fad is. That's why the Mets have had 9 GM's since 1991 and the Yankees and Red Sox have had 6 combined (not including 2 short interim stints in Boston). |