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From: HTP on 9 Jul 2010 14:42 On Jul 9, 10:33 am, David Short <David.No.Sho...(a)Spam.wright.Please.edu> wrote: > On 7/9/2010 12:51 PM, Will Vaughan wrote: > > > So their conclusion was that Montero > > probably isn't the superstar they've built him up to be and other teams > > should be cautious. > > > They could be totally wrong, but they were very convincing in their > > history of who the Yanks have dealt and kept. > > > Also, I would be a bit concerned about Hughes - he hasn't looked > > as dominate in his last few starts. > > Brandon Claussen > Wily Mo Pena > Drew Henson > Brian Reith > Ed Yarnall > Jackson Melian > I assume this is a list of Yankees "prospects" that were packaged to the Reds and never made it big in the bigs. Reith doesnt really belong on this list. He was never more than a marginal prospect. He was a 6th rounder and 5 years into his career he was still in A-ball. That doesnt scream prospect to me. Yarnall was originally a Mets prospect, became a decent pitcher at Columbus, got noticed, and then was packaged to the Reds. But he only played in 33 games in the Yankees system. Henson and melian were both highly regarded. But this wasnt just the yankees touting thier guys. Baseball America had these guys rated as prospects. Looking at Hensons minor league numbers it eludes me as to what anybody saw in him. Henson barely played in the Reds system and was promptly traded back to the Yankees. Melion also barely played for the Reds farm, and was moved. I dont know what that was all about. Pena was originally mets property. he had a few decent years at the plate. I dont know if its injuries that finished him or teams just gave up. Did he get a world series ring with Boston in 2007? ------------- You say "buyer beware" but I can make list of players like these for all clubs. Conversely, i can put together list of players teams traded away that did do something in the majors. Recently the Yankees traded away Austin Jackson and Tyler Clippard, over my objections i might add. Those guys are still early in thier career, but they look good so far. If the Yankees do have a history of managing to hold on to the better prospects while trading away the overvalued ones, then yes ideed buyer beware. But that is also a credit to the Yankees as an organization and thier ability to really recognize talent. It also an afront to the notion that the Yankees simply buy thier championships. This is a far cry from the stupidity of the 1980's when the Yankees were trading away the Willie Mcgee's, Doug Drabeks, and Jay Buhners.
From: Thomas R. Kettler on 9 Jul 2010 14:44 In article <02047745-ddac-41e8-b8f4-4e64ede87614(a)s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, tom dunne <dunnetg(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 9, 1:37�pm, "Thomas R. Kettler" <tkett...(a)blownfuse.net> wrote: > > > Don't forget the immortal in his mind JT Snow who was the big player the > > Angels received for Jim Abbott. > > Hey, that one was a pretty good deal. Snow didn't won six straight > Gold Gloves and had six seasons with an OPS+ of 112 or better (he had > an excellent year in 1997.) After the trade, Abbott went 40-56 for > the rest of his career, never coming close to his 1991 season. > Definitely a win for the Angels. An OPS+ of 112 for a 1B is no big deal. His career OPS+=105 which is mediocre for a 1B. Remember that OPS+ just takes league average OPS into account (normalized for stadium so that Dante Bichette's stats get taken into account for playing in the Arenaball of Colorado). Baseball Reference has Dan Driessen as the most similar batter to JT Snow. Driessen was an NBD player (No Big Deal) just like JT Snow. <http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/snowj.01.shtml> As for Abbott, I don't know what happened to him. His 1995 season for the White Sox and Angels was good (ERA+=124) but he was a human blowtorch in 1996 (ERA=7.48 and ERA+=66) for the Angels, a team which never recovered from its 1995 slide. <http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/abbotji01.shtml> -- Remove blown from email address to reply.
From: HTP on 9 Jul 2010 14:56 On Jul 9, 11:44 am, "Thomas R. Kettler" <tkett...(a)blownfuse.net> wrote: > In article > <02047745-ddac-41e8-b8f4-4e64ede87...(a)s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, > tom dunne <dunn...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jul 9, 1:37 pm, "Thomas R. Kettler" <tkett...(a)blownfuse.net> wrote: > > > > Don't forget the immortal in his mind JT Snow who was the big player the > > > Angels received for Jim Abbott. > > > Hey, that one was a pretty good deal. Snow didn't won six straight > > Gold Gloves and had six seasons with an OPS+ of 112 or better (he had > > an excellent year in 1997.) After the trade, Abbott went 40-56 for > > the rest of his career, never coming close to his 1991 season. > > Definitely a win for the Angels. > > An OPS+ of 112 for a 1B is no big deal. His career OPS+=105 which is > mediocre for a 1B. Remember that OPS+ just takes league average OPS into > account (normalized for stadium so that Dante Bichette's stats get taken > into account for playing in the Arenaball of Colorado). > > Baseball Reference has Dan Driessen as the most similar batter to JT > Snow. Driessen was an NBD player (No Big Deal) just like JT Snow. > > <http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/snowj.01.shtml> > > As for Abbott, I don't know what happened to him. His 1995 season for > the White Sox and Angels was good (ERA+=124) but he was a human > blowtorch in 1996 (ERA=7.48 and ERA+=66) for the Angels, a team which > never recovered from its 1995 slide. > > <http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/abbotji01.shtml> > -- > Remove blown from email address to reply. The point is that Snow wasnt a bust as a prospect, as the Reds of the guys on the list were. He was a solid major league player and more, and his appearance on this thread is out of place.
From: David Short on 9 Jul 2010 15:22 On 7/9/2010 2:42 PM, HTP wrote: > On Jul 9, 10:33 am, David Short > <David.No.Sho...(a)Spam.wright.Please.edu> wrote: >> On 7/9/2010 12:51 PM, Will Vaughan wrote: >> >>> So their conclusion was that Montero >>> probably isn't the superstar they've built him up to be and other teams >>> should be cautious. >> >>> They could be totally wrong, but they were very convincing in their >>> history of who the Yanks have dealt and kept. >> >>> Also, I would be a bit concerned about Hughes - he hasn't looked >>> as dominate in his last few starts. >> >> Brandon Claussen Aaron Boone >> Wily Mo Pena swap for Drew Hensen >> Drew Henson >> Brian Reith >> Ed Yarnall >> Jackson Melian This was the loot from Denny Neagle. Turned into nothing. Just like Denny! > I assume this is a list of Yankees "prospects" that were packaged to > the Reds and never made it big in the bigs. Sorry. I thought red's fans would recognize those deals. > Reith doesnt really belong on this list. He was never more than a > marginal prospect. He was a 6th rounder and 5 years into his career he > was still in A-ball. That doesnt scream prospect to me. When he came to the reds he was a 21 year old in his fourth season pitching well in high a ball. That might not be the fast track, but it's a potential career. > Yarnall was originally a Mets prospect, became a decent pitcher at > Columbus, got noticed, and then was packaged to the Reds. But he only > played in 33 games in the Yankees system. He was a top 50 prospect when he came to the reds. The reds (who were desperate for starting pitching) thought so much of him they sold him to Japan. > Henson and melian were both highly regarded. But this wasnt just the > yankees touting thier guys. Baseball America had these guys rated as > prospects. Looking at Hensons minor league numbers it eludes me as to > what anybody saw in him. Melian-sometimes young guys just never do take that step forward. This could be Yorman's future. > Henson barely played in the Reds system and was promptly traded back > to the Yankees. Melion also barely played for the Reds farm, and was > moved. I dont know what that was all about. He refused to play for the reds. He was an "athelete" and had the leverage of going to play quarter back at....Michigan? I think it was Michagan and teams pretty much had to do what he wanted. He wasn't a baseball player. Pena-Hensen was a 1-1 swap when Hensen cried that he wouldn't play for the reds but only for the yankees. > Pena was originally mets property. he had a few decent years at the > plate. I dont know if its injuries that finished him or teams just > gave up. Did he get a world series ring with Boston in 2007? yes, he did. > You say "buyer beware" but I can make list of players like these for > all clubs. Conversely, i can put together list of players teams traded > away that did do something in the majors. Ok....give me 3 names of young prospects the Red Sox dropped on the Reds in the last 30 years that have turned into busts. dfs
From: JustTom on 9 Jul 2010 16:22
On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:22:34 -0400, David Short <David.No.Short.(a)Spam.wright.Please.edu> wrote: >He refused to play for the reds. He was an "athelete" and had the >leverage of going to play quarter back at....Michigan? I think it was >Michagan and teams pretty much had to do what he wanted. He wasn't a >baseball player. Pena-Hensen was a 1-1 swap when Hensen cried that he >wouldn't play for the reds but only for the yankees. Yes, michigan. Was Brady's backup. The sweetest irony is that after he got his wish and was traded back to the yanks, they sent him to their triple AAA affiliate.....in Columbus, Ohio, where he was booed and tormented nightly. Ended his career with one major league hit (1/9). He wasn't much of a football player either. A whopping 10 completions in 2004 before going another 3 years before attempting another, going 1 for 2 in 2008 for the lions. Ended his career with one touchdown pass (11/20-98 yards). Funny stuff. On the yanks... I watch college football recruiting, and most believe that any notre dame commit automagically gains a full star simply by committing to Notre Dame. I mean if ND wants them, then they must be worthy, right? I think the same thing happens with yankee prospects. It's the only explanation for the mystique of Melky Cabrera. |