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From: Ray OHara on 29 Jul 2010 09:48

"JTibbs" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8bceijFp7rU1(a)mid.individual.net...
>
>
> "Ray OHara" <raymond-ohara(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:i2quc4$eil$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "JTibbs" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:8bcbfuFam5U1(a)mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>>
>>> "O'Neil's Faggy Prostate - Obambi: the most racial Precedency"
>>> <oneilsprostate(a)aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:91a04e22-c8a3-46da-b01e-13a43722d758(a)r27g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>>>> I'm shocked - SHOCKED - I tell you that an inexperienced, racist
>>>> demagogue would do such a thing!
>>>>
>>>> "Decisions on which car dealerships to close as part of the auto
>>>> industry bailout - closures the Obama administration forced on General
>>>> Motors and Chrysler - were based in part on race and gender, according
>>>> to a report by Troubled Asset Relief Program Special Inspector General
>>>> Neal M. Barofsky."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2010/07/obama-closed-ca.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ignoring the blame game here for a second, it's just a shame that so
>>> many dealers that were around for 50+ years did go under. Many were
>>> family businesses passed down through the generations. Many of the
>>> properties now sit vacant as most had 'yards' for heaps at one point and
>>> just having shops makes the remediation process too costly to re-develop
>>> unless it is some really prime real estate. Hopefully Americans will
>>> open their eyes soon to the fact that American cars can be of high
>>> quality and a lot of those dealership spaces will be utilized again.
>>
>> so let me get this right, they are complaining about Obama bailing out GM
>> because some dealers went out of business as opposed to not bailing out
>> GM and every dealership going out of business.
>> yeah that makes sense, to you teabaggers.
>
> Yeah, that makes sense. I said 'ignore the blame game'. I'm only talking
> about the real estate and the loss of generations of hard work. I felt GM
> and Chrysler would go under without help and have posted here in the past
> that I think it could be profitable for the gov't in the long run. If
> they implemented it wrong then whatever, the corporations were saved.
> Stop trying to read conservatives minds by assuming the worst.

of course you want to avoid blame when you can't direct it onto Obama, if
you could you would have.
the real estate is still there and it will get used again. land doesn't
evaporate.
as for "family owned for generations" that is irrelevent. the less
profitable ones went.
business is cold like that.

if you think it was implemented wrong say why. you teabaggers are great for
talking in vague generalities and think you've made a point.


and again attacking a program because some dealers went down when the
alternative was all going down.


From: Ray OHara on 29 Jul 2010 10:03

"JTibbs" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8bceijFp7rU1(a)mid.individual.net...
>
>
> "Ray OHara" <raymond-ohara(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:i2quc4$eil$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "JTibbs" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:8bcbfuFam5U1(a)mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>>
>>> "O'Neil's Faggy Prostate - Obambi: the most racial Precedency"
>>> <oneilsprostate(a)aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:91a04e22-c8a3-46da-b01e-13a43722d758(a)r27g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>>>> I'm shocked - SHOCKED - I tell you that an inexperienced, racist
>>>> demagogue would do such a thing!
>>>>
>>>> "Decisions on which car dealerships to close as part of the auto
>>>> industry bailout - closures the Obama administration forced on General
>>>> Motors and Chrysler - were based in part on race and gender, according
>>>> to a report by Troubled Asset Relief Program Special Inspector General
>>>> Neal M. Barofsky."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2010/07/obama-closed-ca.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ignoring the blame game here for a second, it's just a shame that so
>>> many dealers that were around for 50+ years did go under. Many were
>>> family businesses passed down through the generations. Many of the
>>> properties now sit vacant as most had 'yards' for heaps at one point and
>>> just having shops makes the remediation process too costly to re-develop
>>> unless it is some really prime real estate. Hopefully Americans will
>>> open their eyes soon to the fact that American cars can be of high
>>> quality and a lot of those dealership spaces will be utilized again.
>>
>> so let me get this right, they are complaining about Obama bailing out GM
>> because some dealers went out of business as opposed to not bailing out
>> GM and every dealership going out of business.
>> yeah that makes sense, to you teabaggers.
>
> Yeah, that makes sense. I said 'ignore the blame game'. I'm only talking
> about the real estate and the loss of generations of hard work. I felt GM
> and Chrysler would go under without help and have posted here in the past
> that I think it could be profitable for the gov't in the long run. If
> they implemented it wrong then whatever, the corporations were saved.
> Stop trying to read conservatives minds by assuming the worst.


I went and looked up Barofsky, and I couldn't find him saying those things
claimed by all and only rightwing sites, I read his testimony before a
congressional committee and there was nothing. but all the rightwing sites
made the same claims in the same way. what that tells me is one site made up
the lie and the rest used it as a source, this is a typical and constant
tactic of the ultra-right these days.


From: McDuck on 29 Jul 2010 20:37
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:39:40 -0400, "JTibbs" <jtibbs08(a)yahoo.com>
wrote:


>
>Ignoring the blame game here for a second, it's just a shame that so many
>dealers that were around for 50+ years did go under. Many were family
>businesses passed down through the generations. Many of the properties now
>sit vacant as most had 'yards' for heaps at one point and just having shops
>makes the remediation process too costly to re-develop unless it is some
>really prime real estate. Hopefully Americans will open their eyes soon to
>the fact that American cars can be of high quality and a lot of those
>dealership spaces will be utilized again.

Dealerships were an important part of many communities, especially
small communities. They used to be very profitable, and they had
lucrative deals with the car companies that became unaffordable. Even
the many that have survived are no longer golden gooses.

The claim of racial bias in the management of the closing of
dealerships is not proved and almost certainly is not true, so that
point should be noted. It should also be noted that the government
managed bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler saved many jobs and many
dealerships and reduced unemployment that would have occurred by a lot
--- due not only to the GM and Chrysler jobs but also all the jobs in
the parts businesses.

So, I agree with your sentiment --- it is too bad that the rotten
economy (no blame game) has resulted in some lost dealerships, despite
the efforts of the Obama administration, over the unified opposition
of the other party, to maintain as much of the auto industry as made
sense.

Just a friendly note --- if you really want to avoid the blame game,
you might acknowledge that you are happy with Obama for saving as many
of the dealerships as he did. Not necessary in most contexts, of
course, but you were responding to a vicious political attack on
Obama. the acknowledgement would make clear you were not endorsing the
post you were responding to --- but I did get your point, I believe,
anyway.

You are right about the difficulties of remediation of polluted lots.
THAT was a dark side of the business, and also of the gas station
business. We have far fewer gas stations than we did a couple of
decades ago, and the closed stations left a mess. Many of the stations
closed b/c the oil companies, to maximize their offshore profits, made
the retail gas business unprofitable. The stations that have survived
do so mostly from shop work or from selling milk and groceries, etc.
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