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From: tom dunne on 21 Apr 2010 11:15
On Apr 21, 8:55 am, David Short
<David.No.Sho...(a)Spam.wright.Please.edu> wrote:
> On 4/21/2010 2:14 AM, HTP wrote:
>
> > On Apr 20, 8:07 pm, eddyg...(a)msn.com (john smith) wrote:
> >> I hate guys who are privileged to wear a major league uniform and then
> >> throw it all away because of drugs. I don't care what uniform they wear.
> >> I am not a Reds' fan drone. If a player doesn't play the game the right
> >> way or conduct himself with a certain respect, I have a problem with it.
>
> > Who is throwing it all away because of drugs? According to him, took a
> > doctor-prescribed drug to increase his ability to impregnate his wife.
> > You act like he's some kind of low-life scum.
>
> > Raise your hand if you've never taken a prescription?
>
> Raise your hand if you believed Manny's PR about his little indiscretion
> last year. If you believed that whopper, than you have the right to
> say...Sure I believe Edinson. If you recognize corporate speak
> misdirection you don't believe ANY of this.

What part of Volquez's statement sounded to you like misdirection?
His excuse was actually pretty embarrassing, as reasons for drug use
go. If you put any weight into the Latino stereotypes about
masculinity and the like, I'd think that admitting you need help
fathering children would be especially humiliating. Since Volquez
didn't try to deny usage, why wouldn't he pick a less degrading lie
instead? He could go with the "I'm such a competitor, I took drugs to
heal, trying to get back on the field, etc etc" route and no one would
have batted an eye. Claiming you've got problems with your virility,
especially when you work in a culture of Latin athletes? I can't see
Volquez wanting to lie about that, especially when it won't even get
him off the hook.
From: tom dunne on 21 Apr 2010 11:23
On Apr 21, 9:59 am, RJA <agentvau...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 21, 2:14 am, HTP <tmbowma...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 20, 8:07 pm, eddyg...(a)msn.com (john smith) wrote:
>
> > > I hate guys who are privileged to wear a major league uniform and then
> > > throw it all away because of drugs. I don't care what uniform they wear.
> > > I am not a Reds' fan drone. If a player doesn't play the game the right
> > > way or conduct himself with a certain respect, I have a problem with it.
>
> > Who is throwing it all away because of drugs? According to him, took a
> > doctor-prescribed drug to increase his ability to impregnate his wife.
> > You act like he's some kind of low-life scum.
>
> > Raise your hand if you've never taken a prescription?
>
> > I dont even think he should be suspended for this. Isnt the point of
> > banning PED's to keep players from getting an enhanced advantage on
> > the field. Volquez hasnt appeared in a game since the incident and he
> > isnt likely to appear in a game for months. How has he cheated? How
> > has the game been tarnished?
>
> The issue I have is that he apparently didn't consult with anyone to
> check if it contained a banned substance.  That's either naive or
> stupid.  Maybe the Reds should state that they need to be aware of
> prescriptions that players take.  The other thing that I find
> suspicious is that if he's telling the truth, you'd think that he
> would contest this decision and state his case.  Instead, he's just
> going to go along with it and lose 100 Gs.

Agreed that in his line of work, Volquez REALLY needs to be more
inquisitive. About the suspension, I think the 'zero tolerance'
approach means that the only grounds for appeal are if you can prove
it was a tainted test or something. Even if you admit you used drugs
for legitimate means, you're still using and thus the punishment - MLB
doesn't want to have a rash of players with "fatherhood" problems
hitting the juice. That's my understanding, at least.
From: HTP on 21 Apr 2010 12:49
On Apr 21, 8:23 am, tom dunne <dunn...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 21, 9:59 am, RJA <agentvau...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 21, 2:14 am, HTP <tmbowma...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 20, 8:07 pm, eddyg...(a)msn.com (john smith) wrote:
>
> > > > I hate guys who are privileged to wear a major league uniform and then
> > > > throw it all away because of drugs. I don't care what uniform they wear.
> > > > I am not a Reds' fan drone. If a player doesn't play the game the right
> > > > way or conduct himself with a certain respect, I have a problem with it.
>
> > > Who is throwing it all away because of drugs? According to him, took a
> > > doctor-prescribed drug to increase his ability to impregnate his wife..
> > > You act like he's some kind of low-life scum.
>
> > > Raise your hand if you've never taken a prescription?
>
> > > I dont even think he should be suspended for this. Isnt the point of
> > > banning PED's to keep players from getting an enhanced advantage on
> > > the field. Volquez hasnt appeared in a game since the incident and he
> > > isnt likely to appear in a game for months. How has he cheated? How
> > > has the game been tarnished?
>
> > The issue I have is that he apparently didn't consult with anyone to
> > check if it contained a banned substance.  That's either naive or
> > stupid.  Maybe the Reds should state that they need to be aware of
> > prescriptions that players take.  The other thing that I find
> > suspicious is that if he's telling the truth, you'd think that he
> > would contest this decision and state his case.  Instead, he's just
> > going to go along with it and lose 100 Gs.
>
>  Agreed that in his line of work, Volquez REALLY needs to be more
> inquisitive.  About the suspension, I think the 'zero tolerance'
> approach means that the only grounds for appeal are if you can prove
> it was a tainted test or something.  Even if you admit you used drugs
> for legitimate means, you're still using and thus the punishment - MLB
> doesn't want to have a rash of players with "fatherhood" problems
> hitting the juice.  That's my understanding, at least.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ok, i've been trying to get more info. Found a little bit but nothing
that specifically says what he used.

Theres an article in this mornings USAToday, and i'll quote the
important stuff:

from Gary Wadler - board member of the World Anti-Doping Agency

(paraphrased)
'Fertility pills frequently are used by athletes who are on a steroids
or coming off a steroid cycle, trying to create testosterone'

(quote)
"I dont think it would be something inadvertent. Its not very
effective drug for fertility. Testicles shrivel with steroid use, and
this is to get testicles back to normal. If it was (to have children),
he would have requested a TUE (therapuetic use exemption).


Wadler never actually mentions Volquez, and the phrase 'to have
children' appears to have been inserted by USAToday, so he may not
have been speaking about this particular case.

The thing is, it appears that Volquez could have made a request for an
exemption. The article states "there were 108 players who received
exemptions last year"

Wow, 108 players received permission from MLB to use substances on the
banned list last year, including 2 for low levels of testosterone.

If Volquez could have applied for an exemption for this case, then
he's doubly stupid for not doing so.

------------

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Its entirley possible
that Volquez is being truthful. Its entirely possible that Volquez is
lying about the whole thing. We do know that he's very anxious to get
back to playing and has indicated that he expects to be back before
the original projections. I definitely wouldnt put it past someone to
to use PED's to help themselves heal up quicker. But is that really a
problem in the game?

I cant get past the fact that not 1 single professional game appears
to have been affected by what Volquez did. Theres no cheating at all.
Theres just, at worst, a guy trying to get back onto the field to help
his club and do the work he loves. I just cant see anything wrong with
that. If anything, its commendable. Careless to the point of
stupidity, but still commendable on some level.

One possible change i might suggest to the MLB policy is this: Let
disabled players use whatever means necessary to heal thier bodies and
get into playing condition. If they want to inject thier arses with
goat urine, let them. Its thier body. When they are about ready to
come back, then administer mandatory testing for PED's. If the player
test positive, then he's ineligible without pay until he can pass the
test. Make it 50 days minimum until he can retake the test. He doesnt
get to play again until he is certified clean. There might be problems
with that system, related to time, but i believe its fair to all.

If this is unacceptable policy then i have to conclude that banning
substances wasnt really about preventing cheating or protecting the
integrity of the game. Its mainly about protecting the image of MLB.
Thier concern was really about looking like they care about drug use.
To me its an MLB version of nanny-statism.

On a related topic, anyone know if marijuana is on the banned
substance list? If so, I hardly see how it qualifies as a PED. I
realize that its almost entirley illegal in this country.

In November, theres an issue on the ballott in California to
completely legalize marijuana use. Theres a good chance that it will
pass. I'll be voting 'yes'. Not because i smoke it or deal it. I dont
and never have or will. Its because i dont see a big problem with
other people doing so.

My question is, if the vote passes and someone like Manny wants to
fire one up while he relaxes after a game in his crib, will he be
prevented from doing so by MLB?

From: HTP on 21 Apr 2010 12:59
On Apr 21, 8:15 am, tom dunne <dunn...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 21, 8:55 am, David Short
>
>
>
>
>
> <David.No.Sho...(a)Spam.wright.Please.edu> wrote:
> > On 4/21/2010 2:14 AM, HTP wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 20, 8:07 pm, eddyg...(a)msn.com (john smith) wrote:
> > >> I hate guys who are privileged to wear a major league uniform and then
> > >> throw it all away because of drugs. I don't care what uniform they wear.
> > >> I am not a Reds' fan drone. If a player doesn't play the game the right
> > >> way or conduct himself with a certain respect, I have a problem with it.
>
> > > Who is throwing it all away because of drugs? According to him, took a
> > > doctor-prescribed drug to increase his ability to impregnate his wife..
> > > You act like he's some kind of low-life scum.
>
> > > Raise your hand if you've never taken a prescription?
>
> > Raise your hand if you believed Manny's PR about his little indiscretion
> > last year. If you believed that whopper, than you have the right to
> > say...Sure I believe Edinson. If you recognize corporate speak
> > misdirection you don't believe ANY of this.
>
> What part of Volquez's statement sounded to you like misdirection?
> His excuse was actually pretty embarrassing, as reasons for drug use
> go.  If you put any weight into the Latino stereotypes about
> masculinity and the like, I'd think that admitting you need help
> fathering children would be especially humiliating.  Since Volquez
> didn't try to deny usage, why wouldn't he pick a less degrading lie
> instead?  He could go with the "I'm such a competitor, I took drugs to
> heal, trying to get back on the field, etc etc" route and no one would
> have batted an eye.  Claiming you've got problems with your virility,
> especially when you work in a culture of Latin athletes?  I can't see
> Volquez wanting to lie about that, especially when it won't even get
> him off the hook.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It might help Volquez rep to release info about what he was taking and
what he also tried to get from the doctor in America, and also the
doctors report on his chances of conceiving with his wife.

There is the Latin macho thing. Honestly i have no idea how much of
that actually exist, so i cant comment on it too much. I've heard
about it and beleive i witnessed an example of it once in a
laundrymat. I work with alot of mexican and mexican-american men and i
havent really noticed anything that stood out. I worked for years with
japanese and their particular form of machismo was obvious.

I have to think that for almost any man it would be difficult to admit
that you cant knock a woman up, regardless of culture. i dont think
any man wants to readily publicly admit he has a problem with his
manhood or related equipment. Especially a young guy. Being culturally
latin may very well add to that reluctance.

For Volquez to admit such a thing, he either is lying and has no
shame, or he has decided that his integrity as a ballplayer trumps his
personal shame about his medical problem.
From: tom dunne on 21 Apr 2010 13:50
On Apr 21, 12:59 pm, HTP <tmbowma...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

> For Volquez to admit such a thing, he either is lying and has no
> shame, or he has decided that his integrity as a ballplayer trumps his
> personal shame about his medical problem.

This is where I come out on the topic, and I lean toward the latter
because if it's a lie, it's unusually embarrassing. Volquez released
a statement yesterday; I'll quote it below so people can decide for
themselves if he sounds legit or not:

*****
“Prior to the conclusion of last season, my wife and I sought medical
advice in Cincinnati with the hope of starting a family. As part of
my consultation with the physician, I received certain prescribed
medications to treat my condition. As a follow up to our original
consultation, my wife and I visited another physician in our home city
in the Dominican Republic this past off-season. This physician also
gave me certain prescribed medications as part of my treatment.
Unfortunately, I now know that the medication the physician in the
Dominican gave me is one that is often used to treat my condition, but
is also a banned substance under Major League Baseball’s drug policy.
As a result, I tested positive when I reported to spring training.

“Although I understand that I must accept responsibility for this
mistake and have chosen not to challenge my suspension, I want to
assure everyone that this was an isolated incident involving my
genuine effort to treat a common medical issue and start a family. I
was not trying in any way to gain an advantage in my baseball career.
I am embarrassed by this whole situation and apologize to my family,
friends, fans, teammates, and the entire Reds Organization for being a
distraction and for causing them any difficulty. I simply want to
accept the consequences, learn from the mistake, and continue to
strive to be the best person and baseball player I can be.”
*****
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