Reds get Aaron Miles for Taveras and Rosales
in [Cincinnati Reds]
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From: David Short on 2 Feb 2010 13:17 On 2/2/2010 12:32 PM, HTP wrote: > Yes cabrera figures to be better with the bat than Janish. Theres not > much doubt about that. However, is it enough to offset the expected > defensive dropoff? I'm thinking its not, and even if it is its still > not worth the money. I look for an acceptable level of defense first > from my SS, and based on what i'm reading Cabrera can no longer defend > at that level. Again, I havent watched the guy so i'll reserve final > judgement until April, but he is 35 and 35-year-olds tend not to be > very good defensive shortstops. Theyve downgraded defensively at the > most important defensive position. This only hurts the pitching staff > and i dont think the organization should lose sight of the pitching > +defense philosophy. 220. You have to throw some serious leather out there in order to have a starting lineup slot handed to you if you hit 220. The difference between Cabrera and Janish in terms of runs scored is huge. > As for the idea that this move buys time for Janish to develop as a > hitter, I dont think it does. Aside from the fact that he's not likely > to get much better, how would he develop when he's only getting a few > AB's per week? Honestly, Janish was probably just keeping the seat > warm until Cozart was ready. Yeah. The acquisition of Cabrera adds a serious hoop that Janish can't control to his chances of having a big league career. He needs for Cabrera to fail AND for the reds to recognize it and put Paul back in the lineup. Any time at all passes and Janish is likely to be passed by Frazier, Valakia, Cozart or any of the kid shortstops in the low minors. dfs
From: John Kasupski on 2 Feb 2010 13:47 On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:17:12 -0500, David Short <David.No.Short.(a)Spam.wright.Please.edu> wrote: >Yeah. The acquisition of Cabrera adds a serious hoop that Janish can't >control to his chances of having a big league career. He needs for >Cabrera to fail AND for the reds to recognize it and put Paul back in >the lineup. > >Any time at all passes and Janish is likely to be passed by Frazier, >Valakia, Cozart or any of the kid shortstops in the low minors. I think my point about Cabrera buying the Reds time at the position still stands. *None* of those kids is major league ready right now. Cabrera got a one-year contract with a mutual option for a second year. He's probably not going to be an All-Star, but he probably has a reasonably respectable offensive year or two left in his tank. During that time the Reds can develop Janish, Frazier, Valaika, Cozart, or whoever the shortstop of the future is, so that when Cabrera's contract expires they have his replacement ready to go. Besides, the free agent market for shortstops was basically down to Cabrera, Luis Hernandez, and Ramon Martinez. Hernandez hit .205 for the Royals last year, while Martinez hit .167 for the Mets, and neither has ever been a front-line starting MLB shortstop. It was either Cabrera, or go to ST with the guy who hit ..211 last year pencilled in as the starting SS and no backup plan whatsoever if he got hurt other than to call up another kid from the minors who's not ready, or trade for somebody else's backup and let him show you why he's a backup. Guys are whining because Miles is going to be on the bench, I can imagine the howls if he was in the mix to win the starting job heading into ST! JK
From: David Short on 2 Feb 2010 14:31 On 2/2/2010 1:47 PM, John Kasupski wrote: > On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:17:12 -0500, David Short > <David.No.Short.(a)Spam.wright.Please.edu> wrote: > >> Yeah. The acquisition of Cabrera adds a serious hoop that Janish can't >> control to his chances of having a big league career. He needs for >> Cabrera to fail AND for the reds to recognize it and put Paul back in >> the lineup. >> >> Any time at all passes and Janish is likely to be passed by Frazier, >> Valakia, Cozart or any of the kid shortstops in the low minors. > > I think my point about Cabrera buying the Reds time at the position still > stands. *None* of those kids is major league ready right now. Cabrera got a > one-year contract with a mutual option for a second year. He's probably not > going to be an All-Star, but he probably has a reasonably respectable offensive > year or two left in his tank. During that time the Reds can develop Janish, > Frazier, Valaika, Cozart, or whoever the shortstop of the future is, so that > when Cabrera's contract expires they have his replacement ready to go. "We�re just talking about different shades of suckitude. Neither guy is going to be the guy to lead the Reds to the next level." that's really it, isn't it? > Besides, the free agent market for shortstops was basically down to Cabrera, > Luis Hernandez, and Ramon Martinez. Hernandez hit .205 for the Royals last year, > while Martinez hit .167 for the Mets, and neither has ever been a front-line > starting MLB shortstop. It was either Cabrera, or go to ST with the guy who hit > .211 last year pencilled in as the starting SS and no backup plan whatsoever if > he got hurt other than to call up another kid from the minors who's not ready, > or trade for somebody else's backup and let him show you why he's a backup. Guys > are whining because Miles is going to be on the bench, I can imagine the howls > if he was in the mix to win the starting job heading into ST! The best pig in the poke is still a pig. dfs
From: David Short on 2 Feb 2010 14:32 On 2/2/2010 1:51 PM, RJA wrote: > On Feb 2, 12:28 pm, John Kasupski<w2...(a)spamfilter.verizon.net> >> On a better team, batting seventh or eighth instead of leading off, even his >> .240 in 2009 wouldn't have been as damaging. Hell, the Cardinals won the >> division with Rick Ankiel hitting .231. The Rockies were NL wild card with Chris >> Iannetta hitting .228. Taveras had NEVER hit .240 before. The reason a lot of >> people whined about the Reds signing him was because he doesn't walk enough to >> be in the leadoff spot. and it's true that the guy doesn't take many walks...but >> if had walked 100 times last year, I still don't think it would've made that >> much difference in the Reds offense to make up the 13-game gap between the Reds >> and the Cardinals in the division standings. > > Of course not, but you don't spend 6 million (luckily it only ended up > being 2) on a guy who can't get on base and apparently can't even > judge a fly ball. His defense was what shocked me. I simply could not believe the routes that I was seeing. If I saw it, I can't imagine how anybody associated with MLB didn't see the same thing. Fast is great, but ...yesh. dfs
From: John Kasupski on 2 Feb 2010 14:50
On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:43:49 -0800 (PST), RJA <agentvaughn(a)gmail.com> wrote: >As for trading Taveras for Miles, I'm certainly not complaining about >that. All I said was that his presence on the roster doesn't improve >anything just because he happened to have a roster spot on 2 World >Series teams. The same goes for Lemke, Counsell, and many others. >I'm not saying that guys like Rolen who go about their business in a >professional manner can't influence others to up their game, but when >we're saying Miles, Cabrera, Eric Milton or whoever else know how to >win, that just sounds plain silly. Billy Bates has a World Series >ring, doesn't he? Come on, Rich. That's apples to oranges. There's a world of difference between the contribution Bates made to the 1990 Reds and the contributions Miles, Rolen, and Cabrera made to the 2006 Cardinals and 2004 Red Sox. Miles, Cabrera, and Rolen weren't just guys who rode the pines when they won WS rings. They were key members of their teams. Down the stretch in '06 when the Cardinals were battling for a playoff spot, it was Miles who played shortstop late in the season and helped them win the division while their reguolar shortstop, David Eckstein, was injured. He also started 71 games at 2B for the '06 Cardinals, and hit .364 in postseason play. Rolen started 142 games at 3B for the 2006 Cardinals, hit .296 with 48 doubles, won a Gold Glove, was an NL All-Star, and hit .421 in the WS.. Theo Epstein went out and got Cabrera from the Expos to replace Nomar at shortstop mainly for his glove, but he hit .294 after the trade during the regular season and .379 in the 2004 ALCS. Compare that to Bates, who had all of five regular-season at-bats in 1990, and started 13 games in his entire career - and only one in 1990. Except for one memorable at-bat in the 1990 WS, his effect on his team was negligible. That can't be said for Rolen, Cabrera, or Miles. Those four guys have been there and done that as key members of world championship ballclubs...along with Arroyo, who in 2004 did not lose a game after August 15 (the Sox won all of his last 9 starts), left Game Three of the ALDS with a 6-1 lead, pitched a 1-2-3 inning in relief in Game Five of the ALCS, and combined with Alan Embree to pitch a scoreless eighth inning in relief in Game Four of the WS - not to mention his prominent role in the memorable play humorously depicted in the photo here: http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/lofiversion/index.php?t5278.html So Bates is not a valid comparison. Now, if you wanna talk Billy Hatcher, Mariano Duncan, Danny Jackson, Rick Mahler, Randy Myers - guys on the 1990 Reds who had prior playoff experience - that's another story. But picking Bates off that roster to hold up as an argument is like saying last year's Reds failed to win a playoff slot because Janish is a lousy pitcher. Anyway...I think you, and Henry, severely underestimate the value of that kind of experience in the clubhouse, particularly on a team like the Reds with so many young players. I'm also glad that Walt Jocketty does not. JK |