Reds get Aaron Miles for Taveras and Rosales
in [Cincinnati Reds]
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From: tom dunne on 1 Feb 2010 18:07 On Feb 1, 5:33 pm, John Kasupski <w2...(a)spamfilter.verizon.net> wrote: > On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 10:52:00 -0700, "Will Vaughan" <ws...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >Taveras gone? Addition by subtraction. > > What? Really? Jocketty not only manages to remove the Taveras albatross from > around the club's neck by packaging him with Rosales, who didn't exactly set the > world on fire last year, he actually gets two players in return? > > Plus, by dumping the salaries of taveras and Rosales, the payroll only goes up > by a chump change amount after signing Cabrera? > > Yeah. Walt Jocketty, if you ARE reading this newsgroup - you rock, dude. > > Miles' 2009 season was as disappointing as Taveras' was, but a lot of that was > probably injuries - first his shoulder and then his elbow. Miles can play > several positions. He did have a few good years in St. Louis before crashing > last year with the Cubs. He's a switch-hitter whose career splits are > respectable against both lefties and righties. He has playoff experience and a > WS ring with the Cardinals in '06. He runs the bases well. He will probably be a > useful backup, which Taveras probably was not going to be. > > The player to be named...well, I'll go out on a limb and predict that WJ does > better with this one than the Reds did in the Chris Denorfia deal. > > Nice to have a real GM in the chair. Remember that it was Jocketty who signed Taveras - the albatross was of his own making, so he only gets partial credit for getting rid of it. Moving Taveras is clearly a plus, but the Reds are currently just shuffling the kinds of bit players that don't affect championships. Between overpaying to get Rolen and guaranteeing $30 million to Chapman, Jocketty is rolling a lot of dice. I need to see how these moves pan out before I agree he's doing a good job.
From: HTP on 1 Feb 2010 18:07 On Feb 1, 2:33 pm, John Kasupski <w2...(a)spamfilter.verizon.net> wrote: > On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 10:52:00 -0700, "Will Vaughan" <ws...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >Taveras gone? Addition by subtraction. > > > Nice to have a real GM in the chair. > Nah, I'm not convinced. I'm adding the Cabrera signing to the list of highly questionable moves. Its number 3 behind (#2) the Rolen deal and (#1) the Taveras signing.
From: John Kasupski on 1 Feb 2010 23:58 On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:07:31 -0800 (PST), HTP <tmbowman25(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >On Feb 1, 2:33�pm, John Kasupski <w2...(a)spamfilter.verizon.net> wrote: >> On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 10:52:00 -0700, "Will Vaughan" <ws...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> >Taveras gone? �Addition by subtraction. >> >> >> Nice to have a real GM in the chair. >> > >Nah, I'm not convinced. I'm adding the Cabrera signing to the list of >highly questionable moves. Its number 3 behind (#2) the Rolen deal and >(#1) the Taveras signing. I didn't like the Cabrera signing myself at first. But the more I think about it, this team's biggest weakness last year was lack of offense. Cabrera should be an offensive upgrade at a position where the Reds didn't get much offense last year. He also buys time for Janish to develop as a hitter. Rolen is an upgrade over EE at 3B and buys time for Juan Francisco to develop. Taveras...hey, no GM is right every time. I'm sure I can come up with at least one similar mistake for any GM in baseball. Mistakes happen. The thing is, Taveras bought time for Stubbs to develop and now Jocketty's turned that into a serviceable backup infielder and a PTBNL and saved enough money to cover Cabrera's contract and part of Miles' contract. Miles was hurt last year. He hit .318 for the Cardinals two years ago. So now instead of having a .240 hitter who can only play CF on the bench, the Reds will have a .300 hitter who can play half a dozen positions and is a switch-hitter. Miles, Rolen, and Cabrera all have WS rings. Here, to the best of my knowledge, is a complete list of all the other current Reds players who have WS rings: 1. Bronson Arroyo So these guys also represent some veteran leadership - I wouldn't underestimate the value of that to a young team, even though you can't measure it with a mathematical equation. Bottom line, the Reds are a better team today than they were on Friday.....and the difference in the payroll is chump change. JK
From: John Kasupski on 2 Feb 2010 00:15 On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:07:30 -0800 (PST), tom dunne <dunnetg(a)gmail.com> wrote: >Moving Taveras is clearly a plus, but the Reds are currently just >shuffling the kinds of bit players that don't affect championships. >Between overpaying to get Rolen and guaranteeing $30 million to >Chapman, Jocketty is rolling a lot of dice. I need to see how these >moves pan out before I agree he's doing a good job. Well...as I just pointed out in my reply to Henry's post, Cabrera, Rolen, and Miles all have WS rings, which is something that can be said for no other current Reds player except Arroyo. Veteran leadership can, indeed, affect championships. I think it's one of the things that got the Phillies and Yankees where they were in October. Of course, another thing that got them there is pitching. I think Chapman is a roll of the dice that needed to be made. If he pans out, he's worth Sabathia money and $30 million is a mere pittance. If he turns out to be a mistake, it's the same mistake several other major league GMs would've made, including Beane. JK
From: HTP on 2 Feb 2010 12:32
On Feb 1, 8:58 pm, John Kasupski <w2...(a)spamfilter.verizon.net> wrote: > On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:07:31 -0800 (PST), HTP <tmbowma...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >On Feb 1, 2:33 pm, John Kasupski <w2...(a)spamfilter.verizon.net> wrote: > >> On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 10:52:00 -0700, "Will Vaughan" <ws...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >Taveras gone? Addition by subtraction. > > >> Nice to have a real GM in the chair. > > >Nah, I'm not convinced. I'm adding the Cabrera signing to the list of > >highly questionable moves. Its number 3 behind (#2) the Rolen deal and > >(#1) the Taveras signing. > > I didn't like the Cabrera signing myself at first. But the more I think about > it, this team's biggest weakness last year was lack of offense. Cabrera should > be an offensive upgrade at a position where the Reds didn't get much offense > last year. He also buys time for Janish to develop as a hitter. Yes cabrera figures to be better with the bat than Janish. Theres not much doubt about that. However, is it enough to offset the expected defensive dropoff? I'm thinking its not, and even if it is its still not worth the money. I look for an acceptable level of defense first from my SS, and based on what i'm reading Cabrera can no longer defend at that level. Again, I havent watched the guy so i'll reserve final judgement until April, but he is 35 and 35-year-olds tend not to be very good defensive shortstops. Theyve downgraded defensively at the most important defensive position. This only hurts the pitching staff and i dont think the organization should lose sight of the pitching +defense philosophy. As for the idea that this move buys time for Janish to develop as a hitter, I dont think it does. Aside from the fact that he's not likely to get much better, how would he develop when he's only getting a few AB's per week? Honestly, Janish was probably just keeping the seat warm until Cozart was ready. > > Rolen is an upgrade over EE at 3B and buys time for Juan Francisco to develop. > > Taveras...hey, no GM is right every time. I'm sure I can come up with at least > one similar mistake for any GM in baseball. Mistakes happen. The thing is, > Taveras bought time for Stubbs to develop and now Jocketty's turned that into a > serviceable backup infielder and a PTBNL and saved enough money to cover > Cabrera's contract and part of Miles' contract. This idea that the signing made sense because it buys time for someone else to develop doesnt carry much weight. Technically, when EE was manning third he was buying "time for Francisco to develop". Dickerson could have played CF instead of Taveras and that would have bought "time for Stubbs to develop". Heck, they could sign me to play SS, and that would give Cozart time to develop. I would cost much less than Cabrera i assure you. The Taveras move was the prime suspect for the mediocre 2009 Reds offense. > > Miles was hurt last year. He hit .318 for the Cardinals two years ago. So now > instead of having a .240 hitter who can only play CF on the bench, the Reds will > have a .300 hitter who can play half a dozen positions and is a switch-hitter. Miles is not a .300 hitter anymore than Jerry Hairston Jr. was. He's . 282 career with a 73 ops+. Thats because he has no power and cant work a walk to save his life. He's an overpayed defensive sub. Miles was hurt last year? So was Taveras, and EE, and Dickerson, and Bruce, and...... > > Miles, Rolen, and Cabrera all have WS rings. Here, to the best of my knowledge, > is a complete list of all the other current Reds players who have WS rings: > > 1. Bronson Arroyo Rings means nothing. Talent + health wins pennants. > > So these guys also represent some veteran leadership - I wouldn't underestimate > the value of that to a young team, even though you can't measure it with a > mathematical equation. Bottom line, the Reds are a better team today than they > were on Friday.....and the difference in the payroll is chump change. > If theyre better its because they wont be running Taveras out there in the leadoff spot. But i think that ultimately theyve done little more than break even. As a whole i like the set of moves, but thats almost all attributable to Taveras' exit. |