From: John Kasupski on
On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 21:05:19 -0700 (PDT), HTP <tmbowman25(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Oct 2, 8:24�pm, "Bob Braun" <oxin...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "John Kasupski" <w2...(a)spamfilter.verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:8redc5h1iu5kdmtk9ehlcc50ssnou633t2(a)4ax.com...
>>
>> > On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 15:20:36 -0400, "Bob Braun" <oxin...(a)hotmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >>Poll Question...........
>> >>Do you think Arroyo used pine tar?
>>
>> > No. None of the other Cardinals pitchers seemed to have any problems with
>> > the
>> > balls, either - only Smoltz. Somebody in the St. Louis organization needs
>> > to
>> > remind LaRussa that there's no crying in baseball.
>>
>> > JK
>>
>> I think he used it, and has been using it.
>>
>> It will get interesting, because I think Dave Duncan will be the next
>> pitching coach in Cincinnati. �It just timed up to coincidental. �Pole is
>> let go right when the Cardinals are in town. �Uncle Bob drools for anything
>> from the St. Louis organization. �I think Duncan is through with St. Louis,
>> and secured a 2010 job while in Cincinnati.
>
>Secured a job? I think theres rules against that.

Officially, there is, it would be tampering. Unofficially is another story,
however. One possible scenario:

<Phone rings, Jocketty picks it up> Hello, Walt Jocketty speaking.

<Voice on the other end> Hi, Walt, just me, Chris Duncan, calling to talk to an
old friend...but Walt, I tell ya, I've had it with these idiots. We do one thing
up here and they do something entirely different in our farm system. Seriously,
you need a pitching coach there next year?

<Jocketty> Well...I can't answer that, Chris, You're under contract to the
Cardinals right now. I could get in a lot of trouble. But...well...let's wait
and see what happens.

So Duncan waits, what, 24 hours? Then turns on ESPN to "see what happens" as
Pole is told he's not coming back next year. Well, I guess Duncan has his
answer...and it's pretty much impossible for the Cardinals to prove anything,
especially with Duncan's accusation about Arroyo's supposed pine tar usage
serving as a pretty effective smokescreen.

JK

From: John Kasupski on
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 06:38:42 +0000, John Kasupski <w2pio(a)spamfilter.verizon.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 21:05:19 -0700 (PDT), HTP <tmbowman25(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Oct 2, 8:24�pm, "Bob Braun" <oxin...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> "John Kasupski" <w2...(a)spamfilter.verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:8redc5h1iu5kdmtk9ehlcc50ssnou633t2(a)4ax.com...
>>>
>>> > On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 15:20:36 -0400, "Bob Braun" <oxin...(a)hotmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> >>Poll Question...........
>>> >>Do you think Arroyo used pine tar?
>>>
>>> > No. None of the other Cardinals pitchers seemed to have any problems with
>>> > the
>>> > balls, either - only Smoltz. Somebody in the St. Louis organization needs
>>> > to
>>> > remind LaRussa that there's no crying in baseball.
>>>
>>> > JK
>>>
>>> I think he used it, and has been using it.
>>>
>>> It will get interesting, because I think Dave Duncan will be the next
>>> pitching coach in Cincinnati. �It just timed up to coincidental. �Pole is
>>> let go right when the Cardinals are in town. �Uncle Bob drools for anything
>>> from the St. Louis organization. �I think Duncan is through with St. Louis,
>>> and secured a 2010 job while in Cincinnati.
>>
>>Secured a job? I think theres rules against that.
>
>Officially, there is, it would be tampering. Unofficially is another story,
>however. One possible scenario:
>
><Phone rings, Jocketty picks it up> Hello, Walt Jocketty speaking.
>
><Voice on the other end> Hi, Walt, just me, Chris Duncan,

....Oops, make that Dave Duncan...

>calling to talk to an
>old friend...but Walt, I tell ya, I've had it with these idiots. We do one thing
>up here and they do something entirely different in our farm system. Seriously,
>you need a pitching coach there next year?
>
><Jocketty> Well...I can't answer that, Chris, You're under contract to the
>Cardinals right now. I could get in a lot of trouble. But...well...let's wait
>and see what happens.
>
>So Duncan waits, what, 24 hours? Then turns on ESPN to "see what happens" as
>Pole is told he's not coming back next year. Well, I guess Duncan has his
>answer...and it's pretty much impossible for the Cardinals to prove anything,
>especially with Duncan's accusation about Arroyo's supposed pine tar usage
>serving as a pretty effective smokescreen.
>
>JK

From: jr92 on
On Oct 2, 9:41 am, David Short <David.no.Sh...(a)Spam.Wright.Please.edu>
wrote:
> jr92 wrote:
> > On Oct 1, 6:21 pm, HTP <tmbowma...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> "Sticky" can hold your grip longer and get a tighter spin.
> >> I understand you can hold your grip longer, but thats my point. Ever
> >> try to throw something that is sticking to your hand? its not easy to
> >> control because sometime it doesnt release when you want it to.
>
> > And how do you "hide" it if you are throwing a baseball with pinetar
> > on it???????   Spit,sweat, or any other liquid can easily be gotten
> > rid of off baseball by the catcher simply dropping it and rubbing it
> > in the dirt. If he tries to do that with pine tar, he'll have a
> > baseball full of dirt stuck to it!!!!!
>
> I don't think it was a matter of him doctoring the baseball with the
> pine tar. I think what he was accused of was putting the pine tar on his
> hand in order to get a better grip on the ball. If you think about the
> motion of snapping off a curve ball, you'll agree that even a slight aid
> in keeping that grip as long as possible will help your motion.
>



I understand that, but even putting only a little pine tar on one's
fingertips would leave a trace of pine tar on the ball. The ball would
either show a trace of pine tar, or dirt stuck to the tar on the ball.







> Does anybody have any doubt that LaRussa's probably on to something
> here? Arroyo has already agreed that he shaved the edge of the PED
> scandal. He has been a terrificly hot and cold pitcher over the last
> couple years. It's well within the world of likelihood that the reason
> he's been hot and cold has had to do with his ability to bend the rules
> on his grip.
>


He's pitched well for a couple of months. Really means nothing. He is
simply a fairly good major-league pitcher. He can be of help to the
Reds next year but not as the ace, two or three man.
> dfs

From: Bob Braun on

"jr92" <coachrose13(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8e7f0a46-442a-426d-b3c9-51c55d269fe3(a)s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 2, 9:41 am, David Short <David.no.Sh...(a)Spam.Wright.Please.edu>
wrote:
> jr92 wrote:
> > On Oct 1, 6:21 pm, HTP <tmbowma...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> "Sticky" can hold your grip longer and get a tighter spin.
> >> I understand you can hold your grip longer, but thats my point. Ever
> >> try to throw something that is sticking to your hand? its not easy to
> >> control because sometime it doesnt release when you want it to.
>
> > And how do you "hide" it if you are throwing a baseball with pinetar
> > on it??????? Spit,sweat, or any other liquid can easily be gotten
> > rid of off baseball by the catcher simply dropping it and rubbing it
> > in the dirt. If he tries to do that with pine tar, he'll have a
> > baseball full of dirt stuck to it!!!!!
>
> I don't think it was a matter of him doctoring the baseball with the
> pine tar. I think what he was accused of was putting the pine tar on his
> hand in order to get a better grip on the ball. If you think about the
> motion of snapping off a curve ball, you'll agree that even a slight aid
> in keeping that grip as long as possible will help your motion.
>



I understand that, but even putting only a little pine tar on one's
fingertips would leave a trace of pine tar on the ball. The ball would
either show a trace of pine tar, or dirt stuck to the tar on the ball.

*****************************************************
It doesn't have to be pine tar, just clear stick 'um. The balls in the big
leagues are changed so frequently, I see how he may get by UNLESS someone
drew attention to it.

That's why I don't understand why LaRussa didn't approach the umpire. If
you don't go to that extent, don't even address it now.







From: Bob Braun on

"John Kasupski" <w2pio(a)spamfilter.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:vfsdc5lr5a1q4943mlkrdh3mvenepgjnnp(a)4ax.com...
> On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 06:38:42 +0000, John Kasupski
> <w2pio(a)spamfilter.verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 21:05:19 -0700 (PDT), HTP <tmbowman25(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Oct 2, 8:24 pm, "Bob Braun" <oxin...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> "John Kasupski" <w2...(a)spamfilter.verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:8redc5h1iu5kdmtk9ehlcc50ssnou633t2(a)4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> > On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 15:20:36 -0400, "Bob Braun" <oxin...(a)hotmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>Poll Question...........
>>>> >>Do you think Arroyo used pine tar?
>>>>
>>>> > No. None of the other Cardinals pitchers seemed to have any problems
>>>> > with
>>>> > the
>>>> > balls, either - only Smoltz. Somebody in the St. Louis organization
>>>> > needs
>>>> > to
>>>> > remind LaRussa that there's no crying in baseball.
>>>>
>>>> > JK
>>>>
>>>> I think he used it, and has been using it.
>>>>
>>>> It will get interesting, because I think Dave Duncan will be the next
>>>> pitching coach in Cincinnati. It just timed up to coincidental. Pole is
>>>> let go right when the Cardinals are in town. Uncle Bob drools for
>>>> anything
>>>> from the St. Louis organization. I think Duncan is through with St.
>>>> Louis,
>>>> and secured a 2010 job while in Cincinnati.
>>>
>>>Secured a job? I think theres rules against that.

Yeah, I think there are to. That and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee.
"Hypothetical Situations" are put forth all day, every day in the
professional sports/business world.

If Dave Duncan ends up in Cincinnati next year, look back to this date.