From: Gregg on 30 Apr 2010 04:10 On Apr 29, 11:06 pm, John Kasupski <w2...(a)spamfilter.verizon.net> wrote: > On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:36:40 -0700 (PDT), tom dunne <dunn...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >Player A: .249 avg/.383 obp/.518 slg, 40 homers, 97 RBI, career 132 OPS > >+, lead league in strikeouts 3 times. > >Player B: .262 avg/.356 obp/.490 slg, 32 homers, 98 RBI, career 139 OPS > >+, lead league in strikeouts 5 times. > > >Which one is a Hall of Famer with 4 rings, and which one is the reason > >why his franchises are perennial losers? How can you tell the > >difference? Honest answers only, please - no looking up the names > >until after you submit your guess! > > David, I don't need to look those up to figure out that Dunn is Player A (for > one thing I just mentioned his career .249 average upthread) and to guess that > Reggie Jackson is Player B. See what happens when you only look at part of the > picture? Jackson earned the name "Mr. October" - and wound up in the Hall - in > part because he performed even better in postseason play - hitting exclusively > against pitching staffs that were good enough for their teams to make the > playoffs - than he did during regular season play: > > Stat -- Regular Season -- Postseason > BA -- .262 -- .278 > SLG -- .490 -- .527 > OPS -- .846 -- .885 > > Dunn will never be a Mr. October. He doesn't get that far, he vanishes in > September and drags his team down with him. He's no Reggie Jackson. He's Dave > Kingman (yeah, I know, but...) - who unlike Dunn actually played in the NLDS > once, in 1971 when he was a rookie...hit .111 with 3 Ks in 9 at-bats, his team > lost, and he played another 15 years in the majors without ever sniffing > postseason play again. > > Like Dunn, he was a butcher defensively (his career fielding percentage is below > league average at all four positions that he played - 1B, 3B, LF, RF), and like > Dunn, his trade value was minimal (unless you consider getting traded for the > likes of Paul Siebert, Bobby Valentine, Randy Stein, and Steve Henderson to > indicate that he was highly coveted by opposing teams and that the GMs of the > teams he played for were just stupid...which may indeed be the case considering > that they signed him or traded for him in the first place). > > Like Dunn, you could forget getting veteran leadership out of the guy - Dunn's > idea of veteran leadership was to join Ken Griffey Jr. in putting two Sharper > Image massage chairs in the clubhouse and then manager Dave Miley had them > removed, hanging Danny Graves' jersey near his locker as an homage to his > departed friend and whining to the press, "So now we're going to start winning, > it was the chair's fault." Kingman's idea of veteran leadership was to get fined > $3500 for sending a rat to a female reporter to protest female reporters being > in the clubhouse. > > They'd have probably made great teammates on the modern Washington Nationals, > the Cubs of the late 70's, or the Oakland Athletics of '84-'86 - all of which > share a considerable distance between themselves and postseason play. > > What exactly do you think Ricciardi was talking about up in Toronto in '08 when > he ripped Dunn on the radio? Do you really think it's a coincidence that the > only team willing to sign him to a free agent contract was the absolute worst > team in baseball, the same team who happily welcomed Wily Taveras into the fold > this year after his monumental flop in Cinci last year (and this time > Leatherpants had nothing to do with it) and traded promising outfield prospect > Chris Carter to the BoSox the for Wily Mo after he flopped in both Cinci AND > Boston? Do you really think Walt Jocketty, who assembled teams in St. Louis that > won seven division titles, a wild card, two NL pennants and a WS, suddenly > turned stupid when he came to Cinci, or do you think maybe he knows what he's > doing and had a good reason for getting rid of Dunn as soon as he got a > chance...including some things that possibly don't show up in a box score? > > The fact that the Reds haven't replaced his numbers yet is irrelevant. The > inability to afford a prosthesis to replace a gangrenous leg that is amputated > in order to save the life of the patient is not a logical reason for the patient > to keep the leg and die of necrosis. > > Now please, let's put this argument back to bed where it belongs and get on with > the business of enjoying the current season instead of arguing about something > that's over and done with and has been for three years now. > > JK Tell us how you really feel John. ;-) FWIW - great post.
From: David Short on 30 Apr 2010 07:38 On 4/29/2010 11:08 PM, John Kasupski wrote: > On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 03:06:43 +0000, John Kasupski<w2pio(a)spamfilter.verizon.net> > wrote: > >> David, I don't need to look those up to figure out... > > And I did that twice, too. Since I was replying to Tom and not to David, that's > a little embarassing. Sorry, my bad! It's easy to keep us straight. Tom's the pretty one. dfs
From: RJA on 30 Apr 2010 10:32 On Apr 29, 10:38 pm, tom dunne <dunn...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Apr 29, 9:59 pm, eddyg...(a)msn.com (john smith) wrote: > > > guess Adam Dunn and Reggie Jackson? > > You got it in one, John! Their career averages are very similar, and > Reggie Jackson is actually the all-time strikeout leader in MLB > history. He also made the playoffs 11 times, with three different > franchises. Jackson shares the all-time strikeout top ten with Willie > Stargell, Mike Schmidt and Tony Perez, each one a Hall of Famer and > champion. Strikeouts are no fun to watch, but they really just don't > mean anything about how good or bad a player is. Yeah, but Reggie knows how to win and Dunn doesn't. Just like Cairo and Cabrera. ;)
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