Mets thinking about a fifth year for Bay
in [New York Mets]
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From: Ruben Safir on 22 Dec 2009 15:38 On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:55:29 -0800, jonathan wrote: >> OK - Read it and seriously don't agree. If I needed a CF I'd think >> about > > You're entitled to your opinion, however keep in mind this is a > discussion of value as in contributes to wins in all phases of the game. He makes several presumptive leaps in his modeling which don't hold any water. So he gets what he wants to measure. We've had Cameron and his 108 OPS. I'll take Bays 140 OPS+ in the corner OF position any time. Ruben
From: Ruben Safir on 22 Dec 2009 15:45 On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:55:29 -0800, jonathan wrote: > That's all well and good. The point of this analysis is that Cameron > makes up the difference in offensive production with his defense and > that at this stage of the game, Cameron's overall game is a better value > then Bay is. I realize the Mets don't exactly have plus defenders in > the corner OF positions now, so Bay isn't much of a downgrade. There is a different issue. I don't want an acrobatic LFer. I stick a big fat ugly slugger in that position so to optimize his hitting and minimize his fielding exposure. I don't want my slugging LFer challenging the damn fence, running into the CFer, falling into the stand...etc. I want his bat. i want him to catch lazy fly balls that are hit to him, and to practice his swing between pitches. I'll waste a weaker bat in CF. That was the problem with Piazza. Everyone talked about his great value because he was a catcher. That was hogwash. I didn't WANT him catching. I wanted him playing 1st base because now he has NO VALUE as a hitter because he is sitting in his livingroom mending his old broken knees. You take your best hitters OUT of harms way as much as possible in order to extend their careers and improve their production. Ruben
From: Ruben Safir on 23 Dec 2009 00:34 On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:31:36 -0800, jonathan wrote: >> challenging the damn fence, running into the CFer, falling into the >> stand...etc. I want his bat. i want him to catch lazy fly balls that >> are hit to him, and to practice his swing between pitches. I'll waste >> a weaker bat in CF. > > That's just foolish. It doesn't matter what position somebody is > playing . . . they still should be able to hit and field. No - its actually a statistical and baseball reality. You look up Mike Piazza's offensive similarity scores on baseball-reference, and Low and Behold - You find Fisk, Berra, Bench, Campy, Parrish... Isn't that weird. A few 100,000 players have played the game since the 1870's and all the players most similar to Piazza are catchers.... You don't waste a 900 OPS in the catchers position if you help it. Like Joe Torre, you move them the heck out of there so they can hit. Ruben
From: jonathan on 22 Dec 2009 20:31 > There is a different issue. I don't want an acrobatic LFer. I stick a > big fat ugly slugger in that position so to optimize his hitting and > minimize his fielding exposure. I don't want my slugging LFer In CitiField, a 'big fat ugly slugger' will cost the Mets more runs then he gains with his bat. > challenging the damn fence, running into the CFer, falling into the > stand...etc. I want his bat. i want him to catch lazy fly balls that > are hit to him, and to practice his swing between pitches. I'll waste a > weaker bat in CF. That's just foolish. It doesn't matter what position somebody is playing . . . they still should be able to hit and field. > > That was the problem with Piazza. Everyone talked about his great value > because he was a catcher. That was hogwash. I didn't WANT him > catching. I wanted him playing 1st base because now he has NO VALUE as a > hitter because he is sitting in his livingroom mending his old broken > knees. You take your best hitters OUT of harms way as much as possible > in order to extend their careers and improve their production. As a 1B, he's less valuable because there are more players out there that can produce that production from that position. That's a fact. So what you're saying is if a C can hit you should move him so that he can hit longer. I assume in your mind Johnny Bench should have been moved to 1B. What about Joe Mauer? C should be reserved for the Henry Blanco's of the world.
From: jonathan on 23 Dec 2009 07:22
On Dec 23, 12:34 am, Ruben Safir <ru...(a)mrbrklyn.com> wrote: > On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:31:36 -0800, jonathan wrote: > >> challenging the damn fence, running into the CFer, falling into the > >> stand...etc. I want his bat. i want him to catch lazy fly balls that > >> are hit to him, and to practice his swing between pitches. I'll waste > >> a weaker bat in CF. > > > That's just foolish. It doesn't matter what position somebody is > > playing . . . they still should be able to hit and field. > > No - its actually a statistical and baseball reality. You look up Mike > Piazza's offensive similarity scores on baseball-reference, and Low and > Behold - You find Fisk, Berra, Bench, Campy, Parrish... > > Isn't that weird. A few 100,000 players have played the game since the > 1870's and all the players most similar to Piazza are catchers.... > > You don't waste a 900 OPS in the catchers position if you help it. Like > Joe Torre, you move them the heck out of there so they can hit. > > Ruben Again, so you would have moved all of the above players so they would have had longer offensive careers and reserve the catching position for the likes of Henry Blanco. I realize all of the above players did move, but it was at the point that their offensive effectiveness was starting to wane. Torre and Craig Biggio are the two players that come to mind that were moved. |