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From: John Walsh on 15 Jun 2010 11:42
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:12:50 -0700, Jon Rossen <jonr17(a)comcast.net>
wrote:

>John Walsh wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 23:53:25 -0700, Jon Rossen <jonr17(a)comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> John Walsh wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 23:01:48 -0700, Jon Rossen <jonr17(a)comcast.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I cannot stand the orange alternate unis...and btw...I thought they were
>>>>> only going to be wearing them on Friday home games. Having the Orioles
>>>>> wear theirs (black tops)on the same night made the event look like a
>>>>> company softball game.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me be real clear: I hate all alternate unis that clubs wear. It's
>>>>> not a matter of what color the jersey is...that's basically a function
>>>>> of whatever the team's color is/colors are (each team has either 1 or 2
>>>>> colors). This is something that a lot of people get sidetracked
>>>>> on....commenting on the specific color that the jersey is. The specific
>>>>> color is not the main point and is more of a secondary point; the main
>>>>> point IMHO, is the break from the traditional look where the pants and
>>>>> jersey match (white at home / gray on the road) it just looks tacky and
>>>>> not like the major leagues.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course this is really superficial and not really a big deal. <g>
>>>>> What's really sort of ridiculous is how some teams do this. For
>>>>> instance, I seem to recall that when the Astros moved to their new
>>>>> ballpark they had posted on their website what appeared to be a
>>>>> 'wardrobe schedule' about which uniform they'd wear when. Of course
>>>>> there were the home and away unis. But within those two major groupings
>>>>> there were a whole slew of variations depending on whether it was a day
>>>>> or night game, weekday or weekend game....sheesh.
>>>>>
>>>>> -jon rossen
>>>> The ugly orange uniforms were are part of a "Halloween in June"
>>>> promotion. According to Henry, "Can't handle it." So he didn't like
>>>> it either. What the heck, I think I'll put the question to him and
>>>> see if equates ugly orange uniforms with success. BTW, the Giants
>>>> are only a half game behind the Pads.
>>> Hmmm...that 'Halloween in June' thing is a weird twist on the taunts
>>> some of my Dodger fan friends used to toss at me. They'd always tell me
>>> that the only time you see black and orange in October is at Halloween.
>>> That's OK...I'll be laughing sometime this week at them (hopefully)
>>> when the Celtics win the NBA championship! (oh, please, please, please).
>>>
>>> Yeah, I've been following the standings too...I'm not letting the
>>> uniforms distract me. <g>
>>>
>>> Keep in mind my point wasn't that the fact that the jerseys are Orange
>>> specifically. My main point is that they strayed from the traditional
>>> uniform look and went to an 'alternate' uniform. I'd have the same
>>> problem with it if the Giant's main team color was blue and the jerseys
>>> were blue or if their main team color was red and the jerseys were red.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, having a garish orange as your jersey color is
>>> perhaps a good way to simply 'mock' the entire concept of having
>>> alternate uniforms. Or...if you are going to have a tacky approach to
>>> displaying a uniform, (going non-traditional) you might as well do it
>>> with an 'over the top' color.
>>>
>>> -jon rossen
>>
>> Straying from traditional uniforms is all about marketing and sales.
>> There is no faithfulness to tradition anymore. It's all about
>> creating new uniforms to rack up money for MLB.
>>
>> Even with that garish neon orange, I didn't pay much attention to it
>> until you mentioned it and I focused more on the uniforms than the
>> game. They don't look right. With all the designers and analysts
>> that teams use to create new looks, you think they could have done
>> better.
>>
>> Oh the Celtics laid a massive psych jon on the Lakers. LA could still
>> win it all, but the Celtics have to the advantage now and pretty much
>> a replay of 2008.
>
> > Oh the Celtics laid a massive psych jon on the Lakers.
>
>Hey, thanks for the mention!! <g>
>
>I don't see how any design change or designer could 'fix' the garish
>colors of the alternate unis. The formula is always the same: create a
> new jersey with a solid color out of the main color of the team. The
>only other type of alternate jersey the Giants had in the past was the
>black top. (since their other color is black) I think they wore that on
>Fri. nights at home as well. I seem to recall that it may have been '02
>when they went to the WS....but not 100% sure at all.
>
>-jon rossen

Watch today'sgame. They should be back to home colors after the promo
thing yesterday. Any excuse is a good excuse to see another high
priced shirt. The last time I visited the dugout store, I went for
traditional colors and combinations. About the only solid orange
shirt I picked went to someone else ... a gift of sorts. Although, my
favorite is solid orange with the "BEAT LA" on the front in blue
lettering. I wear that one to work to irritate Dodger fans. I works
quite well for that.
From: NFN Smith on 15 Jun 2010 12:59
John Walsh wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 23:53:25 -0700, Jon Rossen<jonr17(a)comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> John Walsh wrote:
>>> On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 23:01:48 -0700, Jon Rossen<jonr17(a)comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I cannot stand the orange alternate unis...

>>>>
>>>> Let me be real clear: I hate all alternate unis that clubs wear.

Concur.

BTW, does your dislike also apply to, say, the sleeveless variants, as
well? I haven't seen a lot of evidence of that happening this year, but
I know that in the past, the White Sox, Indians, Rangers, Angels, and
maybe a couple of others that I can't remember at the moment have done that.

I'm not sure if I dislike those or not, although I'll take Cleveland's
sleeveless alternate with the cap logo on it over the all-blue alternate.

>>>> The specific
>>>> color is not the main point and is more of a secondary point; the main
>>>> point IMHO, is the break from the traditional look where the pants and
>>>> jersey match (white at home / gray on the road) it just looks tacky and
>>>> not like the major leagues.

True, although the more recent retro styling (namely shirts with
buttons) are an improvement over the stuff in the 70's done with
polyester fabric and V-neck shirts.


>>>>
>>>> Of course this is really superficial and not really a big deal.<g>
>>>> What's really sort of ridiculous is how some teams do this. For
>>>> instance, I seem to recall that when the Astros moved to their new
>>>> ballpark they had posted on their website what appeared to be a
>>>> 'wardrobe schedule' about which uniform they'd wear when. Of course
>>>> there were the home and away unis. But within those two major groupings
>>>> there were a whole slew of variations depending on whether it was a day
>>>> or night game, weekday or weekend game....sheesh.

One of the worst was the original unis done by the Diamondbacks (circa
1998). They were trying for some combination of classic and modern, and
the mistake that they made was trying too hard to do *everything*.
Thus, they had the trendy colors of the 90's, black and purple and teal.
They did pinstripes, they did sleeveless, they did multiple color
combinations on the cap, and multiple logos, and multiple colored
alternate jerseys, black and purple. Simply too much. Yecch.

For what it's worth, I think there was a while where the were letting
the starting pitcher make the decision. I know that for a while, they
were letting the starting pitcher make the decision whether to leave the
roof open or close it (until MLB made them stop that).


>> Hmmm...that 'Halloween in June' thing is a weird twist on the taunts
>> some of my Dodger fan friends used to toss at me. They'd always tell me
>> that the only time you see black and orange in October is at Halloween.

>> That's OK...I'll be laughing sometime this week at them (hopefully)
>> when the Celtics win the NBA championship! (oh, please, please, please).

Actually, one of the more wretched alternate uniforms I've seen in the
NBA is the alternate green one that the Celtics use. Fortunately, for
both the NBA and the NFL (and I think the NHL, too), they don't allow
use of alternate uniforms in the playoffs.

Remember also that the Pirates used an alternate uni that was orange a
few years ago. Pretty ugly.

>> Keep in mind my point wasn't that the fact that the jerseys are Orange
>> specifically. My main point is that they strayed from the traditional
>> uniform look and went to an 'alternate' uniform. I'd have the same
>> problem with it if the Giant's main team color was blue and the jerseys
>> were blue or if their main team color was red and the jerseys were red.

Say, the Indians or the Blue Jays? Both seem to wear their alternates
fairly frequently.

>>
>> On the other hand, having a garish orange as your jersey color is
>> perhaps a good way to simply 'mock' the entire concept of having
>> alternate uniforms. Or...if you are going to have a tacky approach to
>> displaying a uniform, (going non-traditional) you might as well do it
>> with an 'over the top' color.
>>
>> -jon rossen
>
> Straying from traditional uniforms is all about marketing and sales.
> There is no faithfulness to tradition anymore. It's all about
> creating new uniforms to rack up money for MLB.

Yep, and it's not just MLB, either. NFL, NBA and NHL are doing it, too.
In fact, the reason that the NHL moved from having the home team wear
white to the home team wearing colored sweaters was to facilitate use of
alternate unis by the home team. Otherwise, the visiting team's
equipment manager would have to pack both the colored road unis, as well
as the white ones when the home team decided to wear a colored alternate.

Plus, besides regular alternate-color unis, there's the throwback ones,
as well.

One other effect in all of this -- have you noticed that from
year-to-year, it's a lot less frequent that teams do major redesigns of
their uniforms? Remember, in the 70's, it wasn't uncommon that a team
might have a new uniform nearly every year. In fact, until about 1980,
the Padres changed *every* year, until they got to those monstrosities
that had the orange trim.

I think that part of that is that the rules are such that in order to do
a uni change, a permission request has to be done something like a year
in advance, so that there's sufficient time to ramp up production of the
new ones (for souvenir sales), and clear out stocks of the old ones.
Thus, rather than doing major redesigns, most teams are simply doing
incremental tinkering (especially alternates) with what they have.

Now that I think of it, some of the teams that used to make major
changes frequently (including the A's, Indians, White Sox, Padres,
Braves and Brewers) have remarkable consistency in their base uniforms
(and the only major redesigns coming in conjunction with new stadiums),
and the only real changes have been with alternate unis.

> Even with that garish neon orange, I didn't pay much attention to it
> until you mentioned it and I focused more on the uniforms than the
> game. They don't look right. With all the designers and analysts
> that teams use to create new looks, you think they could have done
> better.

Somehow, the color doesn't quite look right -- I don't know if it's that
the color seems washed out (or perhaps a little too much yellow in the
shading) or that there's not enough contrast with white and black. For
what it's worth, the orange unis from the late 70's looked better, at
least in terms of the balance of color.


BTW, in the "hall of shame" of ugliest uniforms, besides the Astros'
rainbow unis, I include dishonorable mentions of the White Sox'
"billboard" uniforms of the early 80's (the first ones following Bill
Veeck's collared ones), and the Padres' camouflage alternates.

Smith
From: Peter Lawrence on 15 Jun 2010 15:13
On 6/14/10 11:01 PM, Jon Rossen wrote:
>
> I cannot stand the orange alternate unis...and btw...I thought they were
> only going to be wearing them on Friday home games. Having the Orioles
> wear theirs (black tops)on the same night made the event look like a
> company softball game.
>
> Let me be real clear: I hate all alternate unis that clubs wear. It's
> not a matter of what color the jersey is...that's basically a function
> of whatever the team's color is/colors are (each team has either 1 or 2
> colors). This is something that a lot of people get sidetracked
> on....commenting on the specific color that the jersey is. The specific
> color is not the main point and is more of a secondary point; the main
> point IMHO, is the break from the traditional look where the pants and
> jersey match (white at home / gray on the road) it just looks tacky and
> not like the major leagues.
>
> Of course this is really superficial and not really a big deal. <g>

That's good, because I *like* this year's alternate Orange tops. I
really like that shade of orange.

Generally speaking, my like or dislike of alternate unis is done on a
case by case basis. In theory I don't have a problem with them unless
they are ugly (as the Giants black alternate unis were about six or
seven years ago) or if a team has too many of them (like the Astros,
D-Backs, and Reds have had at times).

The only thing I don't care for with this years Orange unis is that it
doesn't go well with their cream colored pants, if the Giants wore a
dark khaki colored pants (like in the same shade of khaki that the
Giants ground crew wears) then their Orange alternate unis would look
totally awesome, IMHO. :)

What I think is a bit on the 'too much' side is that this year they are
also wearing their 'black with an orange-bill' baseball caps on Sunday
home games, so they have three separate "looks" when they play home
games this year. (Or four separate looks if you count when they break
out their 'Gigantes' home unis.)


- Peter

From: Jon Rossen on 15 Jun 2010 20:18
Peter Lawrence wrote:
> On 6/14/10 11:01 PM, Jon Rossen wrote:
>>
>> I cannot stand the orange alternate unis...and btw...I thought they were
>> only going to be wearing them on Friday home games. Having the Orioles
>> wear theirs (black tops)on the same night made the event look like a
>> company softball game.
>>
>> Let me be real clear: I hate all alternate unis that clubs wear. It's
>> not a matter of what color the jersey is...that's basically a function
>> of whatever the team's color is/colors are (each team has either 1 or 2
>> colors). This is something that a lot of people get sidetracked
>> on....commenting on the specific color that the jersey is. The specific
>> color is not the main point and is more of a secondary point; the main
>> point IMHO, is the break from the traditional look where the pants and
>> jersey match (white at home / gray on the road) it just looks tacky and
>> not like the major leagues.
>>
>> Of course this is really superficial and not really a big deal. <g>
>
> That's good, because I *like* this year's alternate Orange tops. I
> really like that shade of orange.
>
> Generally speaking, my like or dislike of alternate unis is done on a
> case by case basis. In theory I don't have a problem with them unless
> they are ugly (as the Giants black alternate unis were about six or
> seven years ago) or if a team has too many of them (like the Astros,
> D-Backs, and Reds have had at times).
>
> The only thing I don't care for with this years Orange unis is that it
> doesn't go well with their cream colored pants, if the Giants wore a
> dark khaki colored pants (like in the same shade of khaki that the
> Giants ground crew wears) then their Orange alternate unis would look
> totally awesome, IMHO. :)
>
> What I think is a bit on the 'too much' side is that this year they are
> also wearing their 'black with an orange-bill' baseball caps on Sunday
> home games, so they have three separate "looks" when they play home
> games this year. (Or four separate looks if you count when they break
> out their 'Gigantes' home unis.)
>
>
> - Peter
>

Ok, so we differ on our stance; you take it on a case by case basis
while I don't like the whole concept and 'case by case' isn't an issue.

Yeah, thanks for bringing up the black with orange bill cap....I hate
that too. <g> I hadn't noticed the pattern but come to think of it I
do seem to recall only seeing them on the weekends (you mentioned that
is was a Sunday only thing).

I didn't find their black alternate jerseys ugly; but I still didn't
like them (because of my overall stance towards it in principle). Btw,
do you remember which year they did that? Was it '02? Those alternate
jerseys reminded me of spring training....or maybe it's batting
practice. I think the team wears black jerseys during batting practice
that are sort of a 'mesh-like' type of fabric....and the 'Giants'
lettering is different.

-jon rossen
From: Jon Rossen on 15 Jun 2010 20:29
John Walsh wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:12:50 -0700, Jon Rossen <jonr17(a)comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> John Walsh wrote:
>>> On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 23:53:25 -0700, Jon Rossen <jonr17(a)comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> John Walsh wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 23:01:48 -0700, Jon Rossen <jonr17(a)comcast.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I cannot stand the orange alternate unis...and btw...I thought they were
>>>>>> only going to be wearing them on Friday home games. Having the Orioles
>>>>>> wear theirs (black tops)on the same night made the event look like a
>>>>>> company softball game.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me be real clear: I hate all alternate unis that clubs wear. It's
>>>>>> not a matter of what color the jersey is...that's basically a function
>>>>>> of whatever the team's color is/colors are (each team has either 1 or 2
>>>>>> colors). This is something that a lot of people get sidetracked
>>>>>> on....commenting on the specific color that the jersey is. The specific
>>>>>> color is not the main point and is more of a secondary point; the main
>>>>>> point IMHO, is the break from the traditional look where the pants and
>>>>>> jersey match (white at home / gray on the road) it just looks tacky and
>>>>>> not like the major leagues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course this is really superficial and not really a big deal. <g>
>>>>>> What's really sort of ridiculous is how some teams do this. For
>>>>>> instance, I seem to recall that when the Astros moved to their new
>>>>>> ballpark they had posted on their website what appeared to be a
>>>>>> 'wardrobe schedule' about which uniform they'd wear when. Of course
>>>>>> there were the home and away unis. But within those two major groupings
>>>>>> there were a whole slew of variations depending on whether it was a day
>>>>>> or night game, weekday or weekend game....sheesh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -jon rossen
>>>>> The ugly orange uniforms were are part of a "Halloween in June"
>>>>> promotion. According to Henry, "Can't handle it." So he didn't like
>>>>> it either. What the heck, I think I'll put the question to him and
>>>>> see if equates ugly orange uniforms with success. BTW, the Giants
>>>>> are only a half game behind the Pads.
>>>> Hmmm...that 'Halloween in June' thing is a weird twist on the taunts
>>>> some of my Dodger fan friends used to toss at me. They'd always tell me
>>>> that the only time you see black and orange in October is at Halloween.
>>>> That's OK...I'll be laughing sometime this week at them (hopefully)
>>>> when the Celtics win the NBA championship! (oh, please, please, please).
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I've been following the standings too...I'm not letting the
>>>> uniforms distract me. <g>
>>>>
>>>> Keep in mind my point wasn't that the fact that the jerseys are Orange
>>>> specifically. My main point is that they strayed from the traditional
>>>> uniform look and went to an 'alternate' uniform. I'd have the same
>>>> problem with it if the Giant's main team color was blue and the jerseys
>>>> were blue or if their main team color was red and the jerseys were red.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, having a garish orange as your jersey color is
>>>> perhaps a good way to simply 'mock' the entire concept of having
>>>> alternate uniforms. Or...if you are going to have a tacky approach to
>>>> displaying a uniform, (going non-traditional) you might as well do it
>>>> with an 'over the top' color.
>>>>
>>>> -jon rossen
>>> Straying from traditional uniforms is all about marketing and sales.
>>> There is no faithfulness to tradition anymore. It's all about
>>> creating new uniforms to rack up money for MLB.
>>>
>>> Even with that garish neon orange, I didn't pay much attention to it
>>> until you mentioned it and I focused more on the uniforms than the
>>> game. They don't look right. With all the designers and analysts
>>> that teams use to create new looks, you think they could have done
>>> better.
>>>
>>> Oh the Celtics laid a massive psych jon on the Lakers. LA could still
>>> win it all, but the Celtics have to the advantage now and pretty much
>>> a replay of 2008.
>>> Oh the Celtics laid a massive psych jon on the Lakers.
>> Hey, thanks for the mention!! <g>
>>
>> I don't see how any design change or designer could 'fix' the garish
>> colors of the alternate unis. The formula is always the same: create a
>> new jersey with a solid color out of the main color of the team. The
>> only other type of alternate jersey the Giants had in the past was the
>> black top. (since their other color is black) I think they wore that on
>> Fri. nights at home as well. I seem to recall that it may have been '02
>> when they went to the WS....but not 100% sure at all.
>>
>> -jon rossen
>
> Watch today'sgame. They should be back to home colors after the promo
> thing yesterday. Any excuse is a good excuse to see another high
> priced shirt. The last time I visited the dugout store, I went for
> traditional colors and combinations. About the only solid orange
> shirt I picked went to someone else ... a gift of sorts. Although, my
> favorite is solid orange with the "BEAT LA" on the front in blue
> lettering. I wear that one to work to irritate Dodger fans. I works
> quite well for that.

I have to admit that I did wear my only orange Giants t-shirt to the
game on Sunday. I don't think it was quite as bright of an orange as
the players were wearing. I did buy it at a Giants dugout store.
Actually I bought it in '03 when they were pushing for folks to wear
orange to the ballpark...was it an 'Orange Friday' thing back then? Or
was it the 'I see orange people' campaign? In any event, I bought it
because I was working right near a dugout store and I got caught up in
playoff fever when they were playing the Marlins....and we all know what
happened then, huh? After that every time I wore that f***ing thing,
they lost!! In fact one afternoon I actually *touched* the damn thing
in my t-shirt drawer while putting away clean t-shirts after doing
laundry and the Giants lost later that day. So.....I thought that I'd
wear it to the ballpark to see if the improved Giants could break the
curse on this t-shirt....they did and I was very pleased!! (btw. this
particular t-shirt has 'GIANTS' in an 'arc' on the front in the same
basic font as what the team wears on their home jerseys. There is also
a small 'SAN FRANCISCO' above the 'GIANTS')

-jon rossen
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