From: Scott Smith on

I like this deal. Matt Capps is a better closer than Rauch, and
the Twins didn't really need Ramos now that Butera is playing
well as Joe's backup.

They still need to figure out where to find another starter, though.

From: Matt on
On Jul 29, 10:25 pm, Scott Smith <scott.sm...(a)iphouse.com> wrote:
> I like this deal. Matt Capps is a better closer than Rauch, and
> the Twins didn't really need Ramos now that Butera is playing
> well as Joe's backup.

Yeah, the problem with Ramos was that the luster was coming off of him
fast. He's having a miserable year in AAA. Hitting like .
241/.280/.345. His value as a prospect was dropping almost daily. To
get an all star closer in exchange (even if it's just a Washington
Nationals' all star) seems like about as good as the Twins would have
hoped for.

I think a lot of people saw him as a top prospect entering the year,
and early in the year when the Lee stuff started. But his awful
performance at AAA this year has really diminished his perceived value
amongst other teams. I have a feeling if the Lee talks had started now
instead of two months ago, the Mariners would have laughed at a deal
centered around Ramos. That's how much his stock has fallen.

Matt
From: John Gregory on
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010, Matt wrote:

> On Jul 29, 10:25�pm, Scott Smith <scott.sm...(a)iphouse.com> wrote:
>> I like this deal. Matt Capps is a better closer than Rauch, and
>> the Twins didn't really need Ramos now that Butera is playing
>> well as Joe's backup.
>
> Yeah, the problem with Ramos was that the luster was coming off of him
> fast. He's having a miserable year in AAA. Hitting like .
> 241/.280/.345. His value as a prospect was dropping almost daily. To
> get an all star closer in exchange (even if it's just a Washington
> Nationals' all star) seems like about as good as the Twins would have
> hoped for.
>
> I think a lot of people saw him as a top prospect entering the year,
> and early in the year when the Lee stuff started. But his awful
> performance at AAA this year has really diminished his perceived value
> amongst other teams. I have a feeling if the Lee talks had started now
> instead of two months ago, the Mariners would have laughed at a deal
> centered around Ramos. That's how much his stock has fallen.

Ramos is 22. He's throwing out baserunners at a 50% clip (team
mates this year at around 33%) and I know of no reason to think
other parts of his defensive game aren't good. He's struggling
a little at the plate at the AAA level, hardly "awful", and by
age 25 he projects to be a very good major league catcher for
someone. Not another Joe Mauer, but those are few and far
between.

At the same age, Drew Butera was putting up poorer hitting
numbers at low-A ball, and Jose Morales didn't play much but
at a year older he was putting up poorer hitting numbers at AA.
Is there anyone else in the system we want playing a lot of
innings if Joe Mauer's chronic health problems get worse?

I'm not saying don't trade Ramos, I'm saying he's a valuable
property, regardless of his current trade value.

Matt Capps is established as a good reliever. Jon Rauch in
2008 had a season for Washington about on a par with Capps
in 2010, or arguably better. This year both have WHIPs around
1.3 whereas Joe Nathan had only one season with Minnesota with
a WHIP above 1.0 (which is extraordinary). If Capps narrows any
of the gap between having a Rauch and having a Nathan, it's not
by much. And Capps had a 2009 to forget, for Pittsburgh, so he
doesn't have the track record of a Joe Nathan to deliver year
after year. If the team and fans think they've acquired the
next Joe Nathan, they're mistaken, and the worst case for a
closer brought in as a Messiah is Ron Davis, a downward spiral
that's pretty horrible to contemplate.

At some point in the recent past, before Nathan's injury, there
was discussion that Nathan was a reasonable choice to try to
trade, that closers are overrated for what they bring to a
team. This trade is the kind the Twins should be making, in
reverse.

That said, now that the trade is done, I hope Matt Capps is
lights out and is the difference maker in some critical games.
And I trust that the scouts have determined he has the makeup
to handle the occasional blown save in a pennant race, given
that he's never been nearer than a long distance phone call
to one before today.

--
John Gregory ashbury at skypoint.com http://www.skypoint.com/ tilde ashbury
Baseball quote of the day:
I own half of the plate and the batter owns half of the plate. This
changes from pitch to pitch and I don't tell the batter which half is
mine.
- Don Drysdale

From: Matt on
So short story long, the Twins got an above average reliever for an
above average, but FAR from elite, prospect. Ehh.

Matt
From: Scott Smith on
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:07:18 -0700 (PDT), Matt <aceswired(a)gmail.com>
wrote:

>So short story long, the Twins got an above average reliever for an
>above average, but FAR from elite, prospect. Ehh.

Sounds about right to me.

Not a big impact trade, but acceptable.