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From: mario in victoria on 23 Apr 2010 16:12
Throws like Mary wrote:

<snip>

> One doesn't expect comprehension from a teabagger. A rule doesn't
> need an exception, and you haven't provide one. That doesn't change
> the fact that an exception illustrates the rule. You couldn't
> possibly be expected to grasp that concept.
>
> "No parking on Sunday"=parking allowed every other day.
>

I once lived on a street that had the following signs at the intersection:

No Through Road
Dead End
No Exit

Strangely enough, the street itself was Speed Avenue.

mario in victoria
--
:-)
From: Throws like Mary on 22 Apr 2010 16:55
On Apr 21, 10:58 pm, McDuck <wallyDELETEMEMcD...(a)comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Look at whatever stats you want and you will find that JD Drew has,
> until this year, been a v. productive hitter and an above average
> fielder for the RS.

I'm convinced.

> And he had a GS today.

You should know better than to play that sample in a discussion about
stats.

As I like to say, the exception proves the rule. It is the absence of
production when it is needed most that makes JD Drew a statistically
above average player (who is slightly below average when it matters).
Average is not that high a bar; this is the Red Sox, not the majority
of perpetual non-contenders.

Statistics are easily abused. They are a useful tool, but only if
paired with astute observation. It's a mistake when someone like Bill
James treats the game as a statistical exercise--taking into account
only the things they have tried to quantify, and failing to comprehend
all of the things they have yet to quantify. It's arrogant, hubris.
That type of thinking brings us players like Drew in the first place.
What makes Pedroia a more valuable player than JD? OBP? OPS+? There
isn't one metric which can quantify it. Of those two, who is more
likely to battle deep into the count against a dominant pitcher that
has been pounding the zone--and which one is likely to flail weakly at
an outside slider everyone sees coming before he steps into the box?
From: McDuck on 22 Apr 2010 17:37
On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 13:55:58 -0700 (PDT), Throws like Mary
<yank_ees_suck(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Apr 21, 10:58�pm, McDuck <wallyDELETEMEMcD...(a)comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Look at whatever stats you want and you will find that JD Drew has,
>> until this year, been a v. productive hitter and an above average
>> fielder for the RS.
>
>I'm convinced.
>
>> And he had a GS today.
>
>You should know better than to play that sample in a discussion about
>stats.
>
>As I like to say, the exception proves the rule. It is the absence of
>production when it is needed most that makes JD Drew a statistically
>above average player (who is slightly below average when it matters).
>Average is not that high a bar; this is the Red Sox, not the majority
>of perpetual non-contenders.
>
>Statistics are easily abused. They are a useful tool, but only if
>paired with astute observation. It's a mistake when someone like Bill
>James treats the game as a statistical exercise--taking into account
>only the things they have tried to quantify, and failing to comprehend
>all of the things they have yet to quantify. It's arrogant, hubris.
>That type of thinking brings us players like Drew in the first place.
>What makes Pedroia a more valuable player than JD? OBP? OPS+? There
>isn't one metric which can quantify it.


>Of those two, who is more
>likely to battle deep into the count against a dominant pitcher that
>has been pounding the zone--and which one is likely to flail weakly at
>an outside slider everyone sees coming before he steps into the box?

The question you ask is undoubtedly available --- which batter
typically takes more pitches. That is, I believe the stat collectors
have stats on average number of pitches seen by a batter. My guess is
that Drew and Pedroia are fairly close over the past couple of years
(not this year), but I don't know where to get those stats. My
understanding is that Youk is the club leader.
From: Throws like Mary on 22 Apr 2010 18:53
On Apr 22, 3:37 pm, McDuck <wallyDELETEMEMcD...(a)comcast.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 13:55:58 -0700 (PDT), Throws like Mary
>
>
>
> <yank_ees_s...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 21, 10:58 pm, McDuck <wallyDELETEMEMcD...(a)comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> Look at whatever stats you want and you will find that JD Drew has,
> >> until this year, been a v. productive hitter and an above average
> >> fielder for the RS.
>
> >I'm convinced.
>
> >> And he had a GS today.
>
> >You should know better than to play that sample in a discussion about
> >stats.
>
> >As I like to say, the exception proves the rule. It is the absence of
> >production when it is needed most that makes JD Drew a statistically
> >above average player (who is slightly below average when it matters).
> >Average is not that high a bar; this is the Red Sox, not the majority
> >of perpetual non-contenders.
>
> >Statistics are easily abused.  They are a useful tool, but only if
> >paired with astute observation.  It's a mistake when someone like Bill
> >James treats the game as a statistical exercise--taking into account
> >only the things they have tried to quantify, and failing to comprehend
> >all of the things they have yet to quantify. It's arrogant, hubris.
> >That type of thinking brings us players like Drew in the first place.
> >What makes Pedroia a more valuable player than JD?  OBP?  OPS+?  There
> >isn't one metric which can quantify it.
> >Of those two, who is more
> >likely to battle deep into the count against a dominant pitcher that
> >has been pounding the zone--and which one is likely to flail weakly at
> >an outside slider everyone sees coming before he steps into the box?
>
> The question you ask is undoubtedly available --- which batter
> typically takes more pitches.


That isn't my question--nor my argument. My argument went completely
over your head. If you are watching the game for the sake of the
statistics, you're missing a great game. (Stats won't tell you the
difference between two players when the metric being used--like
pitches taken--has a low standard deviation, small sample size, and is
dependent on variables for which you don't control effectively.)
From: Wayback1918 on 22 Apr 2010 18:56
On Apr 22, 4:55 pm, Throws like Mary <yank_ees_s...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 21, 10:58 pm, McDuck <wallyDELETEMEMcD...(a)comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Look at whatever stats you want and you will find that JD Drew has,
> > until this year, been a v. productive hitter and an above average
> > fielder for the RS.
>
> I'm convinced.
>
> > And he had a GS today.
>
> You should know better than to play that sample in a discussion about
> stats.
>
> As I like to say, the exception proves the rule. It is the absence of
> production when it is needed most that makes JD Drew a statistically
> above average player (who is slightly below average when it matters).
> Average is not that high a bar; this is the Red Sox, not the majority
> of perpetual non-contenders.


>
> Statistics are easily abused.  They are a useful tool, but only if
> paired with astute observation.  It's a mistake when someone like Bill
> James treats the game as a statistical exercise--taking into account
> only the things they have tried to quantify, and failing to comprehend
> all of the things they have yet to quantify. It's arrogant, hubris.
> That type of thinking brings us players like Drew in the first place.
> What makes Pedroia a more valuable player than JD?  OBP?  OPS+?  There
> isn't one metric which can quantify it. Of those two, who is more
> likely to battle deep into the count against a dominant pitcher that
> has been pounding the zone--and which one is likely to flail weakly at
> an outside slider everyone sees coming before he steps into the box?

Drew was 12th in the league in OPS+ much higher than league average.
But why would anyone just use one stat?

Your assertion that Drew is below average when it counts is
laughable. I hope you try to make that case.....Make my day!

You must not have read anything by Bill James. If you had you would
know that he had a deep love of the game as its played on the field as
well.

Actually Ortiz is leading the team right now Pitches/PA
Ortiz 4.89
Drew 4.21
Pedroia 4.17
Youkilis 4.16

There is so much more you are wrong about (and it was only a few
sentences).....a below average post.....and the bar is set pretty low
here.
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