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From: Ruben Safir on 8 Jan 2010 06:42

I don't know. I'm looking at the fielding statistics at
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=639&position=3B#fielding


the problem with these states is that they leave no references. One
would need to go over thousands of profiles to get a sense of values, not
to mention that those statistical numbers aren't explained.

Ruben
From: Ruben Safir on 8 Jan 2010 07:09
On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 11:42:50 +0000, Ruben Safir wrote:

> I don't know. I'm looking at the fielding statistics at
> http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=639&position=3B#fielding
>
>
> the problem with these states is that they leave no references. One
> would need to go over thousands of profiles to get a sense of values,
> not to mention that those statistical numbers aren't explained.
>
> Ruben

Ok - so here is the Beltre

Fielding
Show Postseason | Show Projections | Quick Glossary
Season Team Pos G GS Inn PO A E DP FP RF/ RF/ DG exO Arm DPR RngR ErrR UZR UZR/
G 9 150
Total - - - 2B 1 0 1.0 0 0 0 0 .000 0.0 0.0
Total - - - 3B 1664 1621 14332.2 1319 3194 205 292 .956 2.7 0.0 1128 2186 2.6 93.3 8.5 104.5 13.9
Total - - - SS 7 1 14.0 6 5 0 0 1.000 1.6 0.0 1 2 -0.5 0.0 -0.4 -65.4
2006 Mariners 2B 1 0 1.0 0 0 0 0 .000 0.0 0.0
1998 Dodgers 3B 74 54 513.2 31 130 13 13 .925 2.2 2.8
1999 Dodgers 3B 152 149 1320.2 121 274 29 24 .932 2.6 2.7
2000 Dodgers 3B 138 136 1200.1 116 273 23 30 .944 2.8 2.9
2001 Dodgers 3B 124 121 1080.0 99 215 16 18 .952 2.5 2.6
2002 Dodgers 3B 157 154 1372.0 120 294 20 18 .954 2.6 2.7 145 280 -0.9 21.1 -0.6 19.6 20.2
2003 Dodgers 3B 157 150 1346.0 112 309 19 33 .957 2.7 2.8 174 342 1.0 12.5 0.2 13.7 11.9
2004 Dodgers 3B 155 154 1340.1 120 322 10 32 .978 2.9 3.0 148 280 1.0 16.1 5.9 23.1 23.3
2005 Mariners 3B 155 155 1325.2 140 271 14 25 .967 2.7 2.8 134 261 -0.5 7.0 1.9 8.3 9.4
2006 Mariners 3B 155 155 1358.0 136 323 15 31 .968 3.0 3.0 156 304 0.2 14.2 1.8 16.2 15.6
2007 Mariners 3B 147 146 1279.1 121 287 18 24 .958 2.8 2.9 147 284 -0.1 -3.8 0.7 -3.3 -3.4
2008 Mariners 3B 139 137 1208.1 100 272 14 27 .964 2.7 2.8 121 237 0.7 11.9 0.0 12.7 15.7
2009 Mariners 3B 111 110 988.1 103 224 14 17 .959 2.9 3.0 103 198 1.2 14.3 -1.2 14.3 21.0
1998 Dodgers SS 2 0 2.0 1 1 0 0 1.000 1.0 9.0
2000 Dodgers SS 1 0 1.0 1 0 0 0 1.000 1.0 9.0
2001 Dodgers SS 2 1 9.0 4 3 0 0 1.000 3.5 7.0
2003 Dodgers SS 1 0 1.0 0 0 0 0 .000 0.0 0.0
2004 Dodgers SS 1 0 1.0 0 1 0 0 1.000 1.0 9.0 1 2 -0.5 0.0 -0.4 -65.4



and here is Wright for a reference


Fielding
Show Postseason | Show Projections | Quick Glossary
Season Team Pos G GS Inn PO A E DP FP RF/ RF/ DG exO Arm DPR RngR ErrR UZR UZR/
G 9 150
Total - - 3B 842 841 7457.0 587 1599 109 124 .952 2.6 0.0 795 1540 -4.1 -4.8 -3.4 -12.4 -2.4
-
2004 Mets 3B 69 68 603.2 39 140 11 10 .942 2.6 2.7 70 135 -1.2 7.2 -1.9 4.1 8.6
2005 Mets 3B 160 160 1404.1 101 337 24 23 .948 2.7 2.8 165 321 -0.8 -2.9 -1.3 -5.0 -4.7
2006 Mets 3B 153 153 1365.1 107 288 19 30 .954 2.6 2.6 148 287 -0.2 -9.3 0.1 -9.4 -9.5
2007 Mets 3B 159 159 1418.1 107 324 21 24 .954 2.7 2.7 152 295 -0.3 5.8 -0.6 4.9 4.8
2008 Mets 3B 159 159 1433.1 114 286 16 21 .962 2.5 2.5 142 277 -0.6 3.7 0.4 3.4 3.6
2009 Mets 3B 142 142 1232.0 119 224 18 16 .950 2.4 2.5 118 225 -1.1 -9.3 -0.1 -10.4 -13.2



FWIW - Fangraphs sucks as a website from a tech POV. I had to chop this up by three programs to pull off
of it when baseballreference does in a second.


Ruben
From: jonathan on 8 Jan 2010 11:41
On Jan 8, 7:09 am, Ruben Safir <ru...(a)mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 11:42:50 +0000, Ruben Safir wrote:
> > I don't know.  I'm looking at the fielding statistics at
> >http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=639&position=3B#fielding
>
> > the problem with these states is that they leave no references.  One
> > would need to go over thousands of profiles to get a sense of values,
> > not to mention that those statistical numbers aren't explained.
>
> > Ruben
>
> Ok - so here is the Beltre
>
> Fielding
> Show Postseason  |  Show Projections  |  Quick Glossary
> Season   Team   Pos  G    GS    Inn    PO   A    E  DP   FP   RF/ RF/  DG  exO  Arm DPR  RngR ErrR  UZR   UZR/
>                                                                G   9                                      150
> Total  - - -     2B    1    0     1.0    0    0   0   0  .000 0.0 0.0
> Total  - - -     3B 1664 1621 14332.2 1319 3194 205 292  .956 2.7 0.0 1128 2186      2.6 93.3  8.5 104.5   13.9
> Total  - - -     SS    7    1    14.0    6    5   0   0 1.000 1.6 0.0    1    2          -0.5  0.0  -0.4  -65.4
> 2006   Mariners  2B    1    0     1.0    0    0   0   0  .000 0.0 0.0
> 1998   Dodgers   3B   74   54   513.2   31  130  13  13  .925 2.2 2.8
> 1999   Dodgers   3B  152  149  1320.2  121  274  29  24  .932 2.6 2.7
> 2000   Dodgers   3B  138  136  1200.1  116  273  23  30  .944 2.8 2.9
> 2001   Dodgers   3B  124  121  1080.0   99  215  16  18  .952 2.5 2.6
> 2002   Dodgers   3B  157  154  1372.0  120  294  20  18  .954 2.6 2.7  145  280     -0.9 21.1 -0.6  19.6   20.2
> 2003   Dodgers   3B  157  150  1346.0  112  309  19  33  .957 2.7 2.8  174  342      1.0 12.5  0.2  13.7   11.9
> 2004   Dodgers   3B  155  154  1340.1  120  322  10  32  .978 2.9 3.0  148  280      1.0 16.1  5.9  23.1   23.3
> 2005   Mariners  3B  155  155  1325.2  140  271  14  25  .967 2.7 2.8  134  261     -0.5  7.0  1.9   8.3    9.4
> 2006   Mariners  3B  155  155  1358.0  136  323  15  31  .968 3.0 3.0  156  304      0.2 14.2  1.8  16.2   15.6
> 2007   Mariners  3B  147  146  1279.1  121  287  18  24  .958 2.8 2.9  147  284     -0.1 -3.8  0.7  -3.3   -3.4
> 2008   Mariners  3B  139  137  1208.1  100  272  14  27  .964 2.7 2.8  121  237      0.7 11.9  0.0  12.7   15.7
> 2009   Mariners  3B  111  110   988.1  103  224  14  17  .959 2.9 3.0  103  198      1.2 14.3 -1.2  14.3   21.0
> 1998   Dodgers   SS    2    0     2.0    1    1   0   0 1.000 1.0 9.0
> 2000   Dodgers   SS    1    0     1.0    1    0   0   0 1.000 1.0 9.0
> 2001   Dodgers   SS    2    1     9.0    4    3   0   0 1.000 3.5 7.0
> 2003   Dodgers   SS    1    0     1.0    0    0   0   0  .000 0.0 0.0
> 2004   Dodgers   SS    1    0     1.0    0    1   0   0 1.000 1.0 9.0    1    2          -0.5  0.0  -0.4  -65.4
>
> and here is Wright for a reference
>
> Fielding
> Show Postseason  |  Show Projections  |  Quick Glossary
> Season Team Pos  G  GS   Inn   PO   A    E  DP   FP  RF/ RF/ DG  exO  Arm DPR  RngR ErrR  UZR   UZR/
>                                                       G   9                                     150
> Total  - -   3B 842 841 7457.0 587 1599 109 124 .952 2.6 0.0 795 1540     -4.1 -4.8 -3.4 -12.4   -2.4
>        -
> 2004   Mets  3B  69  68  603.2  39  140  11  10 .942 2.6 2.7  70  135     -1.2  7.2 -1.9   4.1    8.6
> 2005   Mets  3B 160 160 1404.1 101  337  24  23 .948 2.7 2.8 165  321     -0.8 -2.9 -1.3  -5.0   -4.7
> 2006   Mets  3B 153 153 1365.1 107  288  19  30 .954 2.6 2.6 148  287     -0.2 -9.3  0.1  -9.4   -9.5
> 2007   Mets  3B 159 159 1418.1 107  324  21  24 .954 2.7 2.7 152  295     -0.3  5.8 -0.6   4.9    4.8
> 2008   Mets  3B 159 159 1433.1 114  286  16  21 .962 2.5 2.5 142  277     -0.6  3.7  0.4   3.4    3.6
> 2009   Mets  3B 142 142 1232.0 119  224  18  16 .950 2.4 2.5 118  225     -1.1 -9.3 -0.1 -10.4  -13.2
>
> FWIW - Fangraphs sucks as a website from a tech POV.  I had to chop this up by three programs to pull off
> of it when baseballreference does in a second.
>
> Ruben

You can sort leaders on the site:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=3b&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=0&season=2009&month=0

Beltre was #1 in baseball last year. He was #2 the year before. He
had a bad 2007, I think mostly due to injury. He was #1 in 2006, #2
in 2005, #1 in 2004, #3 in 2003, and #3 in 2002.

Here's an explanation of UZR and UZR/150.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/#fielding

Keep in mind that UZR is a stat that combines several other stats.

Also keep in mind that fangraphs isn't nearly as mature as baseball-
reference is in terms of a site. I'd put fangraphs around where
baseball-reference was 3-4 years ago. Also remember baseball-
reference is a pure statistical library whereas fangraphs has analysis
and opinion on it. Fangraphs has certain things like (UZR) that are
great, but baseball-reference is still the go-to place for stats
unless you're looking for something specific that they don't have.
From: Ruben Safir on 8 Jan 2010 19:50
On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 08:41:45 -0800, jonathan wrote:


>> FWIW - Fangraphs sucks as a website from a tech POV.  I had to chop
>> this up by three programs to pull off of it when baseballreference does
>> in a second.
>>
>> Ruben
>
> You can sort leaders on the site:
>
> http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?
pos=3b&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=0&season=2009&month=0
>
> Beltre was #1 in baseball last year. He was #2 the year before. He had
> a bad 2007, I think mostly due to injury. He was #1 in 2006, #2 in
> 2005, #1 in 2004, #3 in 2003, and #3 in 2002.
>
> Here's an explanation of UZR and UZR/150.
>

Well, according to that Wright was dead last last season and the numbers
seem to spread wildly over the years, which is hard to believe, but I'll
look into it more,


> http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/#fielding
>
> Keep in mind that UZR is a stat that combines several other stats.
>
> Also keep in mind that fangraphs isn't nearly as mature as baseball-
> reference is in terms of a site. I'd put fangraphs around where
> baseball-reference was 3-4 years ago.

The technology that fangraphic is using is what cripples it. Its an
IE'er centretic site that blows apart W3C standards.

> Also remember baseball- reference
> is a pure statistical library whereas fangraphs has analysis and opinion
> on it. Fangraphs has certain things like (UZR) that are great, but
> baseball-reference is still the go-to place for stats unless you're
> looking for something specific that they don't have.

From: Ruben Safir on 8 Jan 2010 20:10
On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 08:41:45 -0800, jonathan wrote:

DG (defensive games): The number of outs made by an average fielder at
his position given the exact distribution of balls in play for that
player divided by the number of outs an average player at that position
makes per game.

I think they need to take the SAT on Word Problems ;)

The number of Outs

(nOuts)


made by an average fielder

(NOuts*pAve)

at his position (uh OK - thinking about this in purely mathematical terms
the position doesn't really matter)


(NOuts*pAve)*Kpos


giving the exact distribution of balls in play for that player...

Now here is the trouble. You can't talk about average players and then
individual players in the same mathematical term. It make the sentence
not logical or provable. Are we talking about an Average (the average of
players) or the individual player being measured?



divided by the number of outs of average player at that position



(NOuts*pAve)*Kpos
__________________
(Nouts*pAve)*kpos



per game.



That reduces to

1/games



mathmatically....



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