Next: Matt Maloney
From: coachrose13 on
On May 27, 3:14 am, "Thomas R. Kettler" <tkett...(a)blownfuse.net>
wrote:
> In article <1180246217.872889.186...(a)h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> coachros...(a)hotmail.com wrote:
> > I dont like having a 200 a year strikeout player batting behind the
> > leadoff batter(assuming the lead-off is doing his job and getting on
> > base). Of course, Dunn will quite often, hit the long ball, or even
> > draw a walk, but I think far too often will strand the baserunner by
> > striking out or hitting a fly ball. A good #2 hitter, at the bare
> > minimum, should at least be able to move the runners along . I still
> > think you should bat him in the 6 hole, regardless. He can still drive
> > in a lot of runs from that spot, and when he is not hitting will not
> > hurt his team as much as if he were battting higher in the lineup. The
> > number 7 hitter, under ideal circumstances ( I know, I'm setting
> > myself up on that one!) is kind of like a lead-off hitter: his job is
> > primarily to get on base, so if Dunn is not hitting, it is kind of
> > like the top of the order after he hits(at least until the pitcher's
> > spot comes along!)
>
> There's a very good statistic for measuring how a batter moves runners.
> It is called the Slugging Average (SLG). Adam Dunn does that quite well
> with a career SLG=.514, 68th best of anyone ever in MLB. Also, a runner
> of 1st will advance on a walk which he draws roughly every 6th PA.
>
> Also, consider that Adam Dunn doesn't ground into many double plays.
>
Mostly because he stikes out so much, hits a lot of fly balls, and
bats left-handed, none of which usually moves the runner into scoring
position for the #3 hitter. I also wonder how many walks Dunn would
draw in the 2 hole with a good hitter batting behind, especially if
the leadoff hitter does not get on. Personally, in that case, I would
challenge him, knowing that I have about a one in two-and-a half
chance of stirking him out, as opposed to being careful and walking
him, and giving the #3 hitter a chance with a runner on base.

> While I still argue that he would be best used batting 2nd, if someone
> wouldn't bat him 2nd, I'd argue he should bat 5th since the 5th place
> hitter leads off the 2nd most often in an order after the obvious 1st
> place hitter.
>
> Batting Dunn 6th would be stupid since his career OBP=.379 would be
> wasted since a 7th and 8th hitter would rarely advance him to score on
> the walks that he draws.
>
Most #7 hittters in the big leagues are far from being weak at the
plate. Their job would be to move the6 hole along, as would the 8
batter. Depending on the game situation, the manager would then have
to make a decision on wether to use a pinch hitter for the pitcher.
Thats the way the game has been played for over 100 years.

Of course, the way the Reds are playing right now, I dont think it
makes a whole lot of difference where you bat Dunn at this time!
> Remove blown from email address to reply.


From: Kevin McClave on
On Sun, 27 May 2007 03:14:33 -0400, "Thomas R. Kettler"
<tkettler(a)blownfuse.net> wrote:

>In article <1180246217.872889.186930(a)h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> coachrose13(a)hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> I dont like having a 200 a year strikeout player batting behind the
>> leadoff batter(assuming the lead-off is doing his job and getting on
>> base). Of course, Dunn will quite often, hit the long ball, or even
>> draw a walk, but I think far too often will strand the baserunner by
>> striking out or hitting a fly ball. A good #2 hitter, at the bare
>> minimum, should at least be able to move the runners along . I still
>> think you should bat him in the 6 hole, regardless. He can still drive
>> in a lot of runs from that spot, and when he is not hitting will not
>> hurt his team as much as if he were battting higher in the lineup. The
>> number 7 hitter, under ideal circumstances ( I know, I'm setting
>> myself up on that one!) is kind of like a lead-off hitter: his job is
>> primarily to get on base, so if Dunn is not hitting, it is kind of
>> like the top of the order after he hits(at least until the pitcher's
>> spot comes along!)
>
>There's a very good statistic for measuring how a batter moves runners.
>It is called the Slugging Average (SLG). Adam Dunn does that quite well
>with a career SLG=.514, 68th best of anyone ever in MLB. Also, a runner
>of 1st will advance on a walk which he draws roughly every 6th PA.
>
>Also, consider that Adam Dunn doesn't ground into many double plays.
>
>While I still argue that he would be best used batting 2nd, if someone
>wouldn't bat him 2nd, I'd argue he should bat 5th since the 5th place
>hitter leads off the 2nd most often in an order after the obvious 1st
>place hitter.
>
>Batting Dunn 6th would be stupid since his career OBP=.379 would be
>wasted since a 7th and 8th hitter would rarely advance him to score on
>the walks that he draws.

Pretty much exactly what I've been saying in this thread. People continue
to overlook his BBs and their value.

******************************************************************
Kevin McClave

"To justify himself, each relies on
the other's crime." ~Albert Camus
******************************************************************
From: Kevin McClave on
On 27 May 2007 00:39:17 -0700, coachrose13(a)hotmail.com wrote:

>On May 27, 3:14 am, "Thomas R. Kettler" <tkett...(a)blownfuse.net>
>wrote:
>> In article <1180246217.872889.186...(a)h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> coachros...(a)hotmail.com wrote:
>> > I dont like having a 200 a year strikeout player batting behind the
>> > leadoff batter(assuming the lead-off is doing his job and getting on
>> > base). Of course, Dunn will quite often, hit the long ball, or even
>> > draw a walk, but I think far too often will strand the baserunner by
>> > striking out or hitting a fly ball. A good #2 hitter, at the bare
>> > minimum, should at least be able to move the runners along . I still
>> > think you should bat him in the 6 hole, regardless. He can still drive
>> > in a lot of runs from that spot, and when he is not hitting will not
>> > hurt his team as much as if he were battting higher in the lineup. The
>> > number 7 hitter, under ideal circumstances ( I know, I'm setting
>> > myself up on that one!) is kind of like a lead-off hitter: his job is
>> > primarily to get on base, so if Dunn is not hitting, it is kind of
>> > like the top of the order after he hits(at least until the pitcher's
>> > spot comes along!)
>>
>> There's a very good statistic for measuring how a batter moves runners.
>> It is called the Slugging Average (SLG). Adam Dunn does that quite well
>> with a career SLG=.514, 68th best of anyone ever in MLB. Also, a runner
>> of 1st will advance on a walk which he draws roughly every 6th PA.
>>
>> Also, consider that Adam Dunn doesn't ground into many double plays.
>>
>Mostly because he stikes out so much, hits a lot of fly balls, and
>bats left-handed, none of which usually moves the runner into scoring
>position for the #3 hitter. I also wonder how many walks Dunn would
>draw in the 2 hole with a good hitter batting behind, especially if
>the leadoff hitter does not get on. Personally, in that case, I would
>challenge him, knowing that I have about a one in two-and-a half
>chance of stirking him out, as opposed to being careful and walking
>him, and giving the #3 hitter a chance with a runner on base.

But you also have a chance of him not making an out of any kind...a better
than average chance of that. Outs are the most precious commodity in
baseball.

******************************************************************
Kevin McClave

"To justify himself, each relies on
the other's crime." ~Albert Camus
******************************************************************
From: RJA on
"Thomas R. Kettler" <tkettler(a)blownfuse.net> wrote in message
news:tkettler-1C7485.03143327052007(a)news.fuse.net...
> In article <1180246217.872889.186930(a)h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> coachrose13(a)hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> I dont like having a 200 a year strikeout player batting behind the
>> leadoff batter(assuming the lead-off is doing his job and getting on
>> base). Of course, Dunn will quite often, hit the long ball, or even
>> draw a walk, but I think far too often will strand the baserunner by
>> striking out or hitting a fly ball. A good #2 hitter, at the bare
>> minimum, should at least be able to move the runners along . I still
>> think you should bat him in the 6 hole, regardless. He can still drive
>> in a lot of runs from that spot, and when he is not hitting will not
>> hurt his team as much as if he were battting higher in the lineup. The
>> number 7 hitter, under ideal circumstances ( I know, I'm setting
>> myself up on that one!) is kind of like a lead-off hitter: his job is
>> primarily to get on base, so if Dunn is not hitting, it is kind of
>> like the top of the order after he hits(at least until the pitcher's
>> spot comes along!)
>
> There's a very good statistic for measuring how a batter moves runners.
> It is called the Slugging Average (SLG). Adam Dunn does that quite well
> with a career SLG=.514, 68th best of anyone ever in MLB.

That's coming mostly from HR which has only happened 12 times in 200+ plate
appearances. It's not something you can use to say he's going to be great
in the 2-hole at moving Freel into scoring position.

> Also, a runner of 1st will advance on a walk which he draws roughly every
> 6th PA.
>
> Also, consider that Adam Dunn doesn't ground into many double plays.
>
> While I still argue that he would be best used batting 2nd, if someone
> wouldn't bat him 2nd, I'd argue he should bat 5th since the 5th place
> hitter leads off the 2nd most often in an order after the obvious 1st
> place hitter.
>
> Batting Dunn 6th would be stupid since his career OBP=.379 would be
> wasted since a 7th and 8th hitter would rarely advance him to score on
> the walks that he draws.
>
> Remove blown from email address to reply.


From: RJA on
<coachrose13(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180251556.994061.294750(a)h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On May 27, 3:14 am, "Thomas R. Kettler" <tkett...(a)blownfuse.net>
> wrote:
>> In article <1180246217.872889.186...(a)h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> coachros...(a)hotmail.com wrote:
>> > I dont like having a 200 a year strikeout player batting behind the
>> > leadoff batter(assuming the lead-off is doing his job and getting on
>> > base). Of course, Dunn will quite often, hit the long ball, or even
>> > draw a walk, but I think far too often will strand the baserunner by
>> > striking out or hitting a fly ball. A good #2 hitter, at the bare
>> > minimum, should at least be able to move the runners along . I still
>> > think you should bat him in the 6 hole, regardless. He can still drive
>> > in a lot of runs from that spot, and when he is not hitting will not
>> > hurt his team as much as if he were battting higher in the lineup. The
>> > number 7 hitter, under ideal circumstances ( I know, I'm setting
>> > myself up on that one!) is kind of like a lead-off hitter: his job is
>> > primarily to get on base, so if Dunn is not hitting, it is kind of
>> > like the top of the order after he hits(at least until the pitcher's
>> > spot comes along!)
>>
>> There's a very good statistic for measuring how a batter moves runners.
>> It is called the Slugging Average (SLG). Adam Dunn does that quite well
>> with a career SLG=.514, 68th best of anyone ever in MLB. Also, a runner
>> of 1st will advance on a walk which he draws roughly every 6th PA.
>>
>> Also, consider that Adam Dunn doesn't ground into many double plays.
>>
> Mostly because he stikes out so much, hits a lot of fly balls, and
> bats left-handed, none of which usually moves the runner into scoring
> position for the #3 hitter. I also wonder how many walks Dunn would
> draw in the 2 hole with a good hitter batting behind, especially if
> the leadoff hitter does not get on. Personally, in that case, I would
> challenge him, knowing that I have about a one in two-and-a half
> chance of stirking him out, as opposed to being careful and walking
> him, and giving the #3 hitter a chance with a runner on base.
>
>> While I still argue that he would be best used batting 2nd, if someone
>> wouldn't bat him 2nd, I'd argue he should bat 5th since the 5th place
>> hitter leads off the 2nd most often in an order after the obvious 1st
>> place hitter.
>>
>> Batting Dunn 6th would be stupid since his career OBP=.379 would be
>> wasted since a 7th and 8th hitter would rarely advance him to score on
>> the walks that he draws.
>>
> Most #7 hittters in the big leagues are far from being weak at the
> plate. Their job would be to move the6 hole along, as would the 8
> batter. Depending on the game situation, the manager would then have
> to make a decision on wether to use a pinch hitter for the pitcher.
> Thats the way the game has been played for over 100 years.

I just woke up. Did we acquire a new #7 hitter who's going to be good at
moving guys around? Otherwise, our 7 hitter is typically Alex Gonzalez who
isn't good at anything. This is Adam Dunn we're talking about, and he plays
for the Cincinnati Reds. We're not talking about where we'd bat him in
someone elses lineup.


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