From: RJA on 26 Apr 2010 14:40
On Apr 26, 2:17 pm, eddyg...(a)msn.com (john smith) wrote:
> You can't teach speed, that maybe true but more importantly you can't
> teach good jumps, see the fast guy Willy T on that one.
> A line-up of nine George Brett's will always beat a line-up of nine
> Ozzie Smiths. My point being if you can just hold our own defensively
> and hit well rather than be a defensive player with a weak stick, you
> are much better off.
> Of course you can't teach an older player like Cabrera to have more
> range at this point of his career. The basic skills must be there, age
> has deteriorated his skills and SS is a prime defensive position. You
> can always teach defense better than hitting.
> Joey Votto was a below average fielder who is now average except for
> leading a pitcher to first base. He is constantly improving defensively.
> Votto couldn't scoop up a ball when he first came up. Little things can
> help a fielder much more than a hitter, generally speaking of course.
> Joey Votto will never be a gold glover but in time, more than adequate.
George Brett was a plus fielder so i'm not sure if the analogy works.
I do recall Votto's inability to scoop balls in 2008. When he was
scooping them in 2009, it was night and day. The guy works hard.
From: John Jones on 26 Apr 2010 15:59
George Brett was not a very good fielder when he first broke in. He even
said he feared ground balls in his first year. He worked hard and made
himself into a more than adequate 3rd basemen. Ditto for Mike Schmidt.
My point is if you work hard at fielding you could improve enough to be
very good in some cases. But the same doesn't go for hitting.
Kurt Stillwell could have worked at hitting until he was blue in the
face, he was never going to be a plus hitter.
From: john smith on 26 Apr 2010 20:07
Henry, third base and catcher are the only two positions where speed is
a non factor. Third base is strictly a reaction position. Fall one way
or another basically,lol.
I don't want to go around in circles here, agreed Gomes will never be a
great fielder. My only point is IMO hitters are born. At least great
hitters are born. Fielders can make themselves better with practice. Of
course there are all different aspects to every position and we can go
on forever debating how one can make one self better at each different
position. We can agree SS, CF and catcher are the most important
defensive positions on the club. Each one requires different skills and
even different gloves.
With a hitter you have a bat and you react to a pitch. It is much
tougher to make a hitter a better hitter than to make a defensive
player a better defensive player. Of course then like I mentioned you
must take each different position into consideration and ones agility,
Going to 3b or 1b late in your career is much easier than playing
shortstop or catcher.
Talking about this endless. When you talk about the outfield positions,
CF might require the most range but is probably the easiest position to
field taking into consideration ball angles. I have played all three and
believe me RF and LF are no picnic when that ball is slicing or hit
right at you. CF, you always have the angle..Easier to judge balls, much
easier.You see the ball hit the bat, much easier in CF! Center fielders
will always get better jumps than corner outfielders.
I know I am getting off on quite a few tangents here in regard to
hitting and defense so I will cease. Baseball, it is a great game....
From: john smith on 26 Apr 2010 20:17
Eddie Joost wow you went far back for that one. Says he is career.239
From: HTP on 27 Apr 2010 12:53
On Apr 26, 5:17 pm, eddyg...(a)msn.com (john smith) wrote:
> Eddie Joost wow you went far back for that one. Says he is career.239
> career hitter?
Oh ok. I mis-read what you wrote. Your original claim and argument
against drew stubbs is that you cant teach anyone to be a great
Ok, first of all, george Brett, who you mentioned, never became a
"great" fielder. He was good enough to win a gold glove but nobody is
ever going to confuse him with Brooks Robinson. By an odd coincidence,
brett won his only gold glove the year that the Rangers traded Buddy
bell to the Reds.
Secondly, not liking Drew Stubbs because he's never going to become a
"great" hitter (whatever that is) isnt fair or reasonable. He doesnt
need to be super-awesome at the plate to warrant a job in the major
leagues, and holding players up to that standard isnt practical at
all. If you cut ties with every player the moment he shows signs that
he isnt going to develope into a perennial all-star is silly. You'll
end up with no team at all.
My point about Eddie Joost is this (and i'm not surprised you couldnt
see past his career batting average). He went from 6 years of being
one of the poorest offensive perfomers in the game to 5 years as one
of the best. Despite pedestrian batting averages, he managed to garner
mvp votes in 5 of his last 6 years as a full-time player. He did it by
becoming a much more patient hitter, adjusting his stance, and wearing
glasses. he started turning on a few mor3 inside pitches and yanking
them out of the park.
It was interesting that you glossed over my mention of Concepcion as
someone who became a great hitter. I'll just assume that he didnt fit
your definition of great.